Monday, January 30, 2012

What the hell! Skaven!


This must be some crazy shit, but I just involved in Skaven too!

My friend gave me a whole bunch of unassembled Skaven stuff and that's enough for me to really get started on the army.  A few bucks here and there and I should have a huge army.  That's pretty good considering I didn't spend anything on the Ogres.  My only problem is.. I have limited amounts of experience with and against the rats.  I've been developing a list lately and it looks something like this.

Keep in mind that I have rules!

  • The first rule is that I wanna take Queek Headtaker because I like his fluff and his rules.
  • I will not be using the Hell Pit Abomination.  I hate the model, hate the rules and I don't want to hear people bitch.
  • Out of all the clans, I think I like Clan Pestilens the most.  Hence why I have some of the Poison Wind stuff.
Here's the list:

2500
14 drops

LORDS:
Queek Headtaker = 215
Lv.4 Grey Seer (Scroll) = 265
Lore of Ruin

HEROES:
Chieftain (BSB, Shield) = 72
Warlock Engineer (Brass Orb) = 65
Warlock Engineer (Doomrocket) = 45
Lv.1 Warlock Engineer (Condenser) = 85
Lore of Ruin

CORE:
35x Super Stormvermin (FC, Razor Standard) = 455
35x Clanrats (FC) = 242.5
+Poison Wind Mortar
35x Clanrats (FC) = 242.5
+Poison Wind Mortar
40x Skavenslaves (Musician) = 82
40x Skavenslaves (Musician) = 82
6x Giant Rats (Handler) = 23
6x Giant Rats (Handler) = 23
6x Giant Rats (Handler) = 23

RARE:
Doomwheel = 150
Doomwheel = 150
Warp Lightning Cannon = 90
Warp Lightning Cannon = 90
Plagueclaw Catapult = 100

My biggest problem is that I don't know what's acceptable as core and what formation the units will be in.  I know how to do elite and expensive armies, but an entire made of random fodder is new to me.  I mean, look at how many models this is!  It's insane..

The Super Stormvermin is upgraded with Queek's benefits.  WS5, S5 with Halberds and Razor Standard is pretty insane for damage.  Right now, I'm thinking about putting them in 7x5 formation.  Does this work?  Or should I spend the points to get a bigger unit in general and put them in Horde formation?

What about the rest of the core?  Clanrats should be 5x7 deep and Skavenslaves is 5x8.  How does that look?  The Rat Darts are there for deployment reasons and the rare slot is filled with all kinds of crazy contraptions.  Doomwheels do good amounts of damage once they start blasting into combat and I've seen Warp Lightning Cannons do crazy stuff.  The Plagueclaw is there to drop Large Templates (great vs. Warriors of Chaos!) with no armor saves and the rest of stuff is pretty self-explanatory.

Thoughts?  It looks pretty solid to me but I'd like to know your opinions.

PS - I must be crazy to take this army with so many projects already.. but the price was just too good to pass up on.

Saturday, January 28, 2012

Are we playing the same game?

ETC in a nutshell.
It's been a while since I've played Warhammer Fantasy and I've recently kicked it up a notch.  I've had High Elves since 7th and have played loads of games since then.  When 8th came out, I played loads of games in the beginning, but ended up playing more of 40K because of the armies, time and enjoyment factor.

However, there's just one little thing that's been bothering me.  Alright, it's not very little and it actually raises a huge eyebrow for me and that's ETC.  First, the whole concept of ETC is to promote balanced play (in some people's opinion).  Taking a closer look at the rules and restrictions, I can't help but ask myself:  Isn't this just houserules?  I see the same kind of shit in my local league here.  The fact is:  I'm willing to bet that 95% of the world that plays Warhammer doesn't play with these rules.  The tournaments in my area consists of two conditions:  No special characters, or no restrictions at all.  Many places I've played in the past had the same conditions.  I asked about ETC to a couple of older veterans of the game in my LGS and no one cared for it at all (some didn't even know what it was).  I mean, for fuck sakes, the thing is called EUROPEAN Team Championship.  Why the fuck should I even care?

I can't help but wonder:  Are we playing the same Warhammer?  This is probably one of the biggest problems I have with sites like Ulthuan.net.  It's like Book of Hoeth doesn't even exist.  It's probably the reason why threads like this turn into this in a couple of weeks.  Nice Euro advice dude.  Run more Silver Helm buses.

PS - I realize I lit the fire, and that's perfectly fine with me.

Friday, January 27, 2012

You are what you play?


Well, I'm not really running any experiments, but I'm just really curious what everyone thinks about this.  Do your personality resemble the personality of your army?  If so, what facet?

I'm just curious because I've noticed the following things on the following forums... and please don't kill me if you take this personally because it's just a surface observation.  It should be taken very generally.

On the Lizardman forums (Pyramid Vault and Lustria Online), I've noticed that the discussions that people have are of higher-leveling thinking.. always mathhammering in nature and methodical in arguments.

The Ogre forum.. Ogre Stronghold, has a strong hint of Might is Right, a Just do it! attitude.  I get an overall sense that players just want to push models forward and bash things, and encourage others to do the same.

Dark Elves from Druchii on the other hand, are not as emo as the High Elves on Ulthuan.net.  I thought this to be the other way around but the High Elf players tend to be a lot softer in comp and outright hate their tools of power (Book of Hoeth).  The Dark Elves, on the other hand, have no problem preaching about the Hydra, Stubborn Lord, Sac Dagger, the Cauldron or Wych hordes.  Personally, I'd say I fit under the black sheep, dark secret of High Elf players.  I favor power and I despise the weak.

The Wood Elves on Asari.org and the Bretonnians on Roundtable has seen better times.  However, this doesn't stop them from trying.. and that't always a good sight to see.  Despite the whine threads every now and then and the endless wishlisting (rightly deserved!), both these forums work hard to deliver wins as notably weaker armies.  I think this is an inspiration.

Lastly, we have Carpe Noctem, the last racial forum that I frequent.  As VC players, they're a tenacious bunch.  They realize that playing with the same GGstar + Drakenhoff has given them a bad name over the years and they're working hard on digging themselves out of the grave.  I think it's great to see the community working together and providing feedback on optimal playstyles and lists.  I would say that there's an increased number of Heavy Metal and goth-loving people on that server (just looking at avatars and various band iconography).

What do you think guys?  Isn't this an interesting observation?  And yes lol, I have been to all these forums and interacted with the community.

PS - Would you guys like it if I did podcasts for army book reviews instead of actually writing it out?

Wednesday, January 25, 2012

BR: 2500pts HE vs. VC


Hey guys, this is my first game vs. the new Vampire Counts with my High Elves so I'm really excited to report the game.  I literally just finished playing and I'm pretty tired, but I had to get this BR down before I forget too much stuff.  Throughout the game, I managed to snag a few pictures, but nothing too crazy because we were just having a great time.  I played against my friend Lucas and he's always a good sport.

Before the game began, I gave my opponent a choice between a competitive list and a casual list.  He went with the casual and I took the following:

Lv.4 Archmage, Silver Wand, Robe, Talisman of Saphery, Lore of Shadow
Noble, BSB, GW, AoC, Dawnstone
Lv.1 Mage, Sigil, High Magic
40x Spears in FC w/ Lion Standard
2x 10x Archers
20x Phoenix Guard, FC with Banner of Sorcery
24x White Lions, FC with Banner of Eternal Flame
12x Sword Masters
5x Dragon Princes
2x Great Eagles

I guess I also owe it to some folks over at Ulthuan.net for wanting to see some BRs that feature non-book lists, so here you have it.  I literally took out my case, and decided to take a little bit of everything.  Overall, I was pretty happy about the list.

I didn't get the full list from my opponent, but here's what he had:

Lv.4 Vampire Lord, caster stuff
Lv.1 Beast Vampire
Wight King BSB w/ Black Knights
A unit of Black Knights
A unit of Vargheists
A big block of Crypt Horrors
A big block of Skeletons (Bunker)
A smaller unit of Ghouls
A larger unit of Ghouls
A Corpse Cart

We played on a map that's pretty straight forward.  I had 10 drops total and I managed to outdeploy him in some critical spots.  The biggest one is probably the White Lions vs. his Crypt Horrors and the Dragon Princes on his far flank while the rest of his army stayed together.

I'll post some pictures and talk at the same time.. hopefully it all makes sense.  Keep in mind some pictures are missing because we were having a ball!

  • The game starts off with him going first.  He pushes models up and the Crypt Horrors are really aggressive.  The Mortis Engine gives them 4+ Regen so he's relying on them to really put some damage down.  Things move up but not too aggressively because he doesn't want to face the full might of the Elves!  Just kidding, his Vargheists gets really aggressive and he flies them hard at my Archers.  He throws big on an army-wide Van Hels and I Sigil it, failing to remove it.
  • My first turn looked something like this:
  • The Eagles do what they do best and redirect.  Red Eagle flies up and shows his flank to the Crypt Ghouls, taunting them to charge and clip the Eagle for a triple front, flank and rear charge from my DP, PG, WL and he knows he doesn't want that.  Blue Eagle flies and chills by the Vargheists so they Frenzy test for the Eagle, which then I'll naturally flee and they'll happily go into Sword Masters with a bad roll.  Doesn't matter, my units move and angle and doesn't do too much but anticipate his next moves.  Magic sees a few spells thrown around but nothing goes through.  Shooting sees the Archers down 1 Varighest and put 2 wounds on another.  Nice.
  • My pictures keep turning upside because Blogger's ass so I'll pass on this next picture.  Either way, it doesn't matter.  Last turn during shooting, he pulls the Vargheist that can see the Eagle because he doesn't want to be redirected.  Unfortunately, he fails to restrain and the Varhgiests go into the Sword Masters anyway.  They chop them up to bits and reforms to face the Crypt Ghouls.  The Black Knights charge the Red Eagle and from a horrible display of martial skill, fails to kill the Eagle.  Instead, he does 2 wounds to it and I fly away.  He restrains because he's afraid of getting trapped and die.  I let Curse of Years through on my White Lions because he rolls high on his winds.  This turn gets a little ridiculous because he IFs Winds of Undeath on my Spearmen unit and I'm sweating beads, but he fails horribly at rolling, misfires with the template and places it on his own unit of Skeletons.  To make matters worse, he rolls a 11 on the chart (2 miscast rolls, I make him pick this) which sees him lose 3 whole wizard levels and every spell except for IoN.  He loses a whole bunch of Skeletons and we laugh like huge nerds.
  • Next turn looks something like this:
  • The White Lions go into the Crypt Horrors, the Dragon Princes and Phoenix Guard go into the Black Knights and the Eagle rallies.  The Blue Eagle flies towards the Ghouls to be annoying, showing his flank and forcing him to redirect for my Sword Masters.  Magic sees the winds heavily go in my favor and I'm liking what I see.  Cool, I thought, time to cast a lot of spells!  He dispels Withering on the Knights and watches me IF Enfeeble on his Crypt Horrors, making them S2 for the round.  I put a small template on myself and lose 3 dice, and kill 8 White Lions.  We laugh again like huge nerds.  It's pretty sad, I'm pretty sad because I really needed them to be there later.  Anyways, I use the rest of my dice to dispel Curse of Years and we enter combat since shooting did squat.  The Dragon Princes swing with a crap ton of attacks, hits with a lot and wound with few.  The Phoenix Guard had the same exact problem.. so this combined charge didn't go as well as I hoped.  He still loses combat narrowly and pulls a few knights in response.  Undead is Unbreakable so I'm forced to hang out.  The White Lions, however, go buck shit crazy on the Crypt Horrors and I challenge with my Archmage.  His Champ accepts, does no damage to me and I stop some of his damage.  I did an insane amount of wounds and force a crap ton of additional wounds, but he hangs in there with his Champ that has 1 wound left.  Just a little more and I would of overran into his Mortis Engine.
  • The next couple of turns turn pretty funny.  I don't have pictures because it's really funny, but what happened here was his Black Knights started to res up because of good magic winds rolls and the Peripat his Lord carried.  I didn't want his Knights to get to full, so I let the Signature Beast spell go off on the Black Knights. I try to dispel IoN and fails horribly so he gets a few models back.  Charges see the Mortis Engine enter combat and impact hits kills a few more Lions.  Now that the Corpse Cart is nearby and IoN went through, all the units within 6" of it gains ASF.  Well, that kinda sucks because it takes away from my White Lion's killing ability, and it proves to be the case when the Mortis Engine single-handily ties combat with the White Lion's BSB unit as I roll poorly to wound it (only 2 wounds).  The Black Knight unit, now with +1S +1T beings to kill the Phoenix Guard and I'm not liking where this combat is going.  I swing back, kill just a couple and we tie combat again.  His turn also sees the Blue Eagle charged and ran off the board, but in doing so left his rear opened for my Sword Masters to enter.
  • I don't have pictures of the next couple of turns, but it basically stays all up in the middle.  I charge my Sword Masters in from behind and shit gets real.  A couple of Sword Masters die (I think 3), but he loses combat by something like 12.  Yeah.. time to pull models.  If my Archers would of made it into combat (both failed charge), I would have wiped the unit out in 1 round I think.  Magic goes poorly again as he manages to scroll my Mindrazor on the Dragon Princes and throws everything else at my Withering.  God damnit, those Black Knights are killing me.  My Red Eagle charges the Mortis Engine and combat sees a ton of hits in my favor and S6 was enough to drop the Mortis Engine.  It blows up and kills a bunch of units all around the center.  I think in total it drops 2x Phoenix Guard, 1x Lion and 3x Spears on my side.  It also drops a bunch of weenies on his side but he doesn't care.  Anyways, the Eagle overruns an amazing 2 inches (which is kinda good because it helps block his Lord's unit from charging my White Lions), and I restrain with my White Lions.  Combat with the Black Knights turn south and my Dragon Princes are cut down to 1 guy (who flees like a coward) and the Phoenix Guard flee as well.  He reforms to face the flank of my White Lions.
  • I have a good picture of the last turn:
  • You see that large template centered over his Lord?  That's what happens when you miscast on 5-dice of IoN and roll Dimensional Cascade.  To make matters worse, his Lord gets sucked into the void and 17 Skeletons eat massive shit.  The Eagle also eats shit but it's hysterical to see that go off in this crazy game.  The Black Knights charge the flank of my White Lions and I make way with the Archmage and the BSB.  I know he's looking for KB on my BSB, but I swing into the unit and kill 2 of them.  The AM challenges and the Wight King accepts (oops, bad choice) and I save a good amount of wounds.  I get lucky and there was no KBs to be had, but I managed to take a wound on the BSB.  Regardless, the crumble kicks into effect and the Black Knights gets hit hard with boxcars, the Corpse Cart dies horribly and the rest of the units start dying off slowly.  His remaining unit of Ghouls suicide charge into my 40x Spear unit in hopes of snagging the Lv.1 for points.  My White Lions lose combat but they're Stubborn and don't care.  The Spear unit also wins combat and that's pretty much it.
  • Next turn just sees the Spear unit and Sword Master unit combo charge the remaining Skeleton bunker.  The White Lions, augmented by magic and the Black Knights hexed to death dies horribly.  Victory goes the the Asur!

We talk about the game after about some of the tactical mistakes he made during the game.  The Eagles were certainly a huge pain to deal with, but I think he could of played his Vargheists better.  I'm not entirely convinced on a caster lord, but he was doing it to save points so he can put more in the rest of his army.  Crypt Horrors just get dominated by White Lions w/ some magic support and he's definitely more aware of the Challenging Archmage now.  The Mortis Engine gave him a pretty strong magic phase with the +2 to cast, but miscasts can still happen and they're a lot more brutal with the engine around.  At the end of the night, we were just having a great time.  Thanks for the game Lucas!

Tuesday, January 24, 2012

Some observations on VC gameplay


So after a few games of playing with the new VC, I have some notes to share with you guys:

  • A Lv.4 is really important in the army because of magic dominance.  You really need a strong magic phase to keep your units in good number.  Grave Guard are still amazing with GWs, it's just they're a lot more fragile than last edition.
  • Supporting casters are a must have too.  The 6" bubble for rank 1 IoN is a great way to raise bunkers and keep units alive when they're next to you.  2 dice is a good chuck for a Lv.1 caster.
  • Ethereal re-directors are decent, not the best.  The reason why is because of the 12" bubble and clunky bases giving you a harder time.
  • Speaking of the 12" bubble, this is my biggest observation.  It keeps your entire army bunched up and close together and leaves very little choices on army composition.  A large core block of Skeletons is the right way to go (I've tried 60 and 2x 30) and the larger block allows you to anchor on one side of your flank entirely.  The 12" march bubble is very important in 2 respects:
    • It makes cavalry-based armies a little less attractive.  You want movement, you desire movement, but leaving your army behind you while you seek glory is just troublesome.  Foot Lords are probably better because you want to be in the center of your army.  Cavalry Lords are bad unless your entire army can keep up with you (an entire cav army or flying Vargheists).
    • Overruns and pursues can be bad for your Lord's unit.  Say you win combat by a lot and roll really high to pursue or overrun.  Unless your units are in position to charge or counter-charge next turn, their movement gets hampered a lot.  You can't march unless you're within 12" and you can't rely 100% on Van Hels to get your shit where it needs to be.
    • If you plan on taking Black Knights, they should probably hang out behind your main forces or something so you can VHD them around the side so they can supporting charge next turn.
  • Big blocks of Skeletons are pretty win.  My Ghouls have done pretty well in games, but I found Skeletons to be the core unit for price vs. effectiveness.  You just lock something down hard and that's always good.
  • The biggest winners I've seen on various forums, battle reports and personal experience is the Mortis Engine, Crypt Horrors and Vargheists.  The Mortis Engine just lets you cast with +2 to all things and it's just ridiculous.  When a Lv.1 casts like a Lv.3, there's a good chance you'll get a lot more spells off.  With IoN needed to sustain your army's model count by the time you move across the battlefield, I would definitely recommend the Mortis Engine.  The funny thing is that Crypt Horrors are also really amazing.  T5 with 4+ Regen because of the Mortis Engine really holds the line when you need them too.  And Vargheists, flying Frenzy Monstrous Infantry is just really good.  Good WS, high S, good I, flying, a lot of attacks, it's all good.  T4 with no armor saves might seem like liability, but it's mother fing ridiculous vs. armies that don't have a lot of shooting or magic missiles.  They just fly over most re-directors and hit things on the flank.  Bam, dead units everywhere.
  • So in summary, let's recap what I think is good:
    • Big units of core to hold flanks (Skellies!)
    • Ethereal misdirectors are clunky with the 12" bubble
    • The 12" bubble really hinders movement and keeps your army tight
    • Mortis Engine, Crypt Horrors, Vargheists and GG w/ Great Weapons (yes, they're still amazing) are the way to go.
PS - And this is probably pretty random.. but I managed to get my hands on a Ogres army for really cheap.  Guess I'll have Ogres on top of VC soon!

PPS - Hellheart vs. Vampires when they have a Mortis Engine just ruins their undead lives.  Roll twice on the Miscast chart and you pick the result.  Terrible.

PPPS - I have a game as High Elves vs. the new VC tonight!  BR will come soon :)

Wednesday, January 18, 2012

More VC army construction


UPDATED: 1-19-12

I'm still working on the finer points of designing a solid VC army and I'd like to take you guys on a guided tour on how I reach certain decisions.  Hopefully, this short article will help you guys in your army building stages as well.

First, I'll talk about my lord choices:

Vampire Lord = 433
Lore of Vampires
Red Fury, Quickblood
Knight, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, 4+ Ward, PoFool

Lv.3 Master Necro (Book of Arkhan) = 190
Lore of Vampires

This here is what I had at first.  I wanted to do this for the following reasons:  Keeping the VL at Lv.1 makes him a mere support caster.  It gives him focus, as he's now a primary melee attacker.  Bigger spells are not really used by him, thus limiting the amount of PD thrown (which in turn lowers the chance to miscast).  This also allows me to fill in a Master Necro at Lv.3 and Book of Arkhan.  It gives him a dedicated role and allows him to cast elsewhere (2 casters vs. 1) while maintaining a good magic item.

However, my list progressed to something like this:

Viktor Draconis (Lv.4 Vampire Lord) = 538
Lore of Vampires
Red Fury, Quickblood
Knight, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, 4+ Ward, PoFool

Lv.1 Necro (Book of Arkhan) = 90

Going over the points again, I took a look at my Lv.3 Master Necro and the Vampire Lord and stared at them for a very long time.  I understand the pros and cons of having both a Vampire Lord and Master Necro, but I wanted more than that.  More knowledge, more options, more understanding.  One of the first things a competitive player does when he min-maxes his list is to trim the fat.  He maximizes on the amount of points he has allotted himself and he goes to no end to find a work around one simple concept:  How to get the best bang for your buck?  Then it hit me.. the Master Necro Lv.4 is 200 points on the dot.  To upgrade my Vampire Lord to a Lv.4 takes 105 points.  That's half of the points to unlock the VL to his full potential and gives you a larger array of spells.  The reason why this change is appropriate is because of points:  I can't possibly take a Red Fury Lord and a Lv.4 in the same army list at 2500 points.  The only way I can is to take one person who can do it all:  A Lv.4 Wizard with the speed, power and protection of a fully-armored Vampire Lord.

I decided that the good outweighs the bad:  The good is that you have a Lv.4 in your army and a combat Lord at the same time.  The bad is that you are now the biggest target on the battlefield:  3 wounds, one body, one location, the General and the highest level caster.  Sounds like a bad deal right?  Not for the 100 points saved and the big middle finger saying I'm coming for you anyway (reasoning need not apply).

As for the Hero slots, I'm still a little undecided.  When I show you my army list later, you'll see that I still have ~100 or so points left over.  Here's the combo I have running right now:

Edward Cullen (Vampire) = 202
Lore of Vampires
Aura of Dark Majesty, Fear Incarnate
Shield, Glittering Scales, Scroll

60x Skeletons (FC, Screaming Banner, Spears) = 355

I used to have the Vampire mounted on a horse in a unit of Black Knights and the Vampire Lord, but I decided against that.  One of the reasons why is because it paints a giant target on my head, and since I changed my Vampire Lord to a Lv.4, I don't want an even bigger target placed over my head.  This falls into the "too many eggs in 1 basket" approach.  The combo might be ridiculous on paper, but when you total up the points to see it work, you begin to wonder if it's worth it or not.  I decided that it was not worth it, but instead focus on something that'll improve the overall strength of my entire army:  Adding additional threat!

What's scarier than a giant horde of Skeletons flanked by a giant unit of Grave Guard w/ Banner of Barrows?  When the giant unit of Skeletons you're in combat with is never going to let you go until you're all destroyed.  With the Scary Vampire placed in the giant unit of Skellies, you have an assload of Unbreakable wounds to chew through w/ Fear tests going off every turn that'll make you hate life.  Skeletons suck in combat compared to most things, but they are actually pretty decent when you put them in a horde formation with Spears and give them the ability to make someone WS1.  Hit on 3s with an assload of attacks is going to cause issues to anyone in the game.  Not just that, but they hit you less, you kill them more and it balances out their Undead rule to maybe even... beating units in combat.  Maybe you don't have to pull more Skellies out of every combat.  Maybe, just maybe, I think Skeletons should be scary on the battlefield.

This, completes the goal that I wanted to do:  Expand on the number of threats on the battlefield while reducing the bullet magnet size of the Black Knights.  Kill 2 birds with 1 stone as far as I'm concerned.

Now, we look at another the other obvious combos:

35x Grave Guard (FC, GW, Banner of Barrows) = 500
11x Black Knights (FC, Banner of Swiftness) = 331

7x5 Grave Guard with Great Weapons and Banner of Barrows.  Deploy them next to the Fear-bombing Skeletons and your opponents will most likely sweat.  Think about it:  Grave Guard hits most things in the game on 3s and wound on 2s with Great Weapons.  Vs. a giant Skeleton bunker that's afflicting fear to targets 10-wide, you're looking at hitting things in the game on 2s.  In turn, this also ups the amount of damage you receive because WS1 hits WS3 on 5s.  All of a sudden, being in combat with Grave Guard + Fearbomb gives you the same amount of protection as the now missing Drakenhof Banner.  In fact, vs. higher WS units w/ Flaming Banner, recurring Fear gives you infinitely more protection.

The other unit here is the Black Knights.  I took the Screaming Banner off them so I can spread the threat somewhere else, so I decided to up their count to 11 and give them Banner of Swiftness.  One of the problems with Knights these games is their size, their price, their ability to NOT deny Steadfast and their speed.  I wanted to amend as many of these as possible by upping their unit count to 11 first.  This gives me more bodies to pull, more units to put back because of my new Lv.4 (D6+1 is a lot!), and less models that needs to be there for when Disruption might come into effect.  Being a 6x2 formation also provides a larger number of attacks at the cost of almost no maneuverability.  The Banner of Swiftness gives me additional threat range, and allows me to get in combat quicker.  Honestly, I need to get in combat ASAP with the Lord and his unit to minimize on the amount of shooting I have to face.

So with that in mind, here's my current list as of today:

2500
9 drops

LORDS:
Viktor Draconis (Lv.4 Vampire Lord) = 538
Lore of Vampires
Red Fury, Quickblood
Knight, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, 4+ Ward, PoFool

HEROES:
Edward Cullen (Vampire) = 202
Lore of Vampires
Aura of Dark Majesty, Fear Incarnate
Shield, Glittering Scales, Scroll

Lv.1 Necro (Book of Arkhan) = 90
Cairn Wraith = 60

CORE:
60x Skeletons (FC, Screaming Banner) = 355
27x Ghouls = 270

SPECIAL:
Spirit Host = 45
Spirit Host = 45
2x Fell Bats = 32
2x Fell Bats = 32
35x Grave Guard (FC, GW, Banner of Barrows) = 500
11x Black Knights (FC, Banner of Swiftness) = 331

Now I'm looking at a total of 9 drops with heroes.  That's a pretty decent amount of drops and the Fell Bats mean absolutely nothing to me.  If they re-direct some things out of the way, great.  If they don't, it doesn't matter because I still have 9 drops total.  I added the Cairn Wraith in there for another Ethereal re-director and Terror.  Having a Terror-causer in the scary Skeleton unit can give me Fear over Fear-causers, so I think that's great.

Thanks for reading.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

2500pt VC army brainstorm


Alright guys, gloves off.  I have enough models to make it happen, so now it's time to proxy a few games and see how I do.  However, there's some stuff I want to go over first.

2246

LORDS:
Vampire Lord = 433
Lore of Vampires
Red Fury, Quickblood
Knight, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, 4+ Ward, PoFool

Lv.3 Master Necro (Book of Arkhan) = 190
Lore of Vampires

HEROES:
Vampire = 210
Lore of Shadow
Aura of Dark Majesty, Fear Incarnate
Knight, Enchanted Shield, Scroll

CORE:
60x Skeletons (FC, Spears) = 330
29x Ghouls (Ghast) = 300

SPECIAL:
40x Grave Guard (FC, Banner of Barrows) = 520
8x Black Knights (FC, Screaming Banner) = 263

The first thing you'll note is that I have 250 points left to play with. After careful, careful consideration, I decided to take out my Blood Knight bus for a smaller Black Knight filler group. They cost almost half the points of the Blood Knights and they get to carry the Screaming Banner into critical battles. Not to mention I can also res a whole bunch of them at once. I firmly believe that the Vampire Lord and the Vampire themselves will be able to put out enough damage by themselves.

The Lord's shortbus now carries the Fear-bomb combo: -1 Ld, no BSB re-rolls on Fear tests (or re-roll successful ones), 3D6 discard the lowest Fear test.

For a perspective, it looks something like this:

I've run the numbers for the screaming banner/fear incarnate combo (add aura of -1Ld if you will) and these are the odds of failing the fear tests for different. First number is without the rerolls (the enemy is close to his BSB) and the second is with the rerolls:

Ld10: 0.2 - 0.36
Ld9: 0.36 - 0.59
Ld8: 0.52 - 0.77
Ld7: 0.68 - 0.9
Ld6: 0.8 - 0.96
Ld5: 0.89 - 0.99
Ld4: 0.95 - 0.999..
Ld3: 0.98 - 0.999..
Ld2: 0.99 - 0.99999....

I'm also running 40x Grave Guard with HW/S for durability and killing power, and I feel confident with their ability to stay in battle and do damage with Van Hels, Book and hopefully more castings of it from my Lv.3.

Now, I have 250 points left over and I'm not entirely sure what to take. There's so SO many good options! That's why I need your help and your logic to why. Here are my options:

1. Terrorgheist (+1 extra deploy)
Giant T6 6W creature with Death Shriek. Threat value, pretty damn high.

2. Spirit Host, Spirit Host, Spirit Host, and a Cairn Wraith (+3 deploy)
3x solo Spirit Hosts act as great Ethereal road blocks that can hold up Great Eagles, Light Cav, even bigger Cav units in general indefinitely. Cairn Wraith actually does damage and has Terror.

3. 2x Cairn Wraiths, Necro w/ Staff of Damn (0 deploy)
More magic, can also carry a scroll to give the Vampire a Dawnstone for 1+ re-rollable. 2x Cairn Wraiths for road blocks that actually do damage.

4. Black Coach, Cairn Wraith (+1 deploy)
Black Coach, T6 3+ armor save, 4+ Ward, Terror-causing chariot that can get really big if you roll silly. Cairn Wraith as a filler.

5. 5x Cairn Wraiths as rare (+1 deploy)
250 points of standard face roll Ethereal Great Weapon dudes.

6. 5x Hexwraiths, Spirit Host, Spirit Host (+3 deploy)
Hexwraiths to do damage, 2x Spirit Hosts to mess with deployment.

7. 2x Bat Swarms, 2x Cairn Wraiths, 1x Spirit Hosts (+3 deploy)
Bat Swarms flying behind your units to provide ASL once your units get into combat. Cairn Wraiths for added damage and roadblocks and Spirit Hosts for a speed bump.

8. Add a Wight King BSB somewhere, take Spirit Hosts and Bats. (+2 deploy)

These are just the combos I can think of right now, but I'm really curious what you guys think.  Keep in mind you can mix and match any of these that costs low enough. Also keep in mind that this 250 points left is the most important part of the list. Lots of options.. but the most important goal of these last few points is to provide flexibility in an all-comers list.  This means a balance between roadblocks, re-directors, power-hitters, stronger magic, or any of those mixed together.  The ultimate question is:  What's the best?

What say you guys?

Saturday, January 14, 2012

8th Ed. Vampire Counts Army Book Review

Possibly the worst cover art I've ever seen.

To start things off, I'd like to say that I'm very happy with the new Vampire Counts book.  It's a solid army book with lots of different options and has tons of versatility.  One of the things I enjoy the most when reading new army books is judging its internal balance:  The book must be interesting enough that there's multiple viable builds possible.  What can I say?  Phil Kelly wrote the book and the man is capable of delivering awesome material.

Now, the moment you've all been waiting for... the book review.  To start things off, let's talk about the spcial rules and work our way down to special characters, lords and heroes...etc.

The Vampire special rules come off pretty strong:  For one, Vampires gain something called Hunger which allows those with the Vampric rule to gain a wound back on a "6" provided they kill something.  This happens at the end of every combat phase.  The Undead army itself can't march unless within 12" of the army general or has the Vampire rule, so VC certainly move a bit faster than Tomb Kings.  Another thing that might sadden the TK players is that once the VC general dies, instead of crumbling into the ground turn after turn, after the first turn of crumbling, another wizard with the Vampire Lore can seize control of the army and stop crumbling all together.  Pretty cool huh?

Vlad makes an appearance in the book and he's better than he was last time.  He still has the Carstein Ring which gives him a 4+ Ward and the 2+ "We'll Be Back", but he comes back with Heavy Armor and is a Lv.3 wizard.  If he and Isabella is in the same unit, both of them gain ASF and can really maul things in combat. He comes with Aura of Dark Majesty, Beguile and Supernatural Horror, and he carries the Bloodrinker.  Don't worry, the Blood Drinker has been nerfed quite a bit and now it grants Vlad +1S and a wound back on 4+ since it procs off of Hunger.  Isabella deserves a little mention because she's almost double the price but comes with normal Vampire stats so she doesn't suck in combat.  She also has Beguile.  Just like Vlad, if any of this duo dies in combat, the other one gains Hatred and Frenzy for the rest of the game.

Both Mannfreds are still in the game and they didn't really change much.  I personally think Mannfred's Lord form is too expensive to take, but that's because I'm comparing him to the other caster lord, Heinrich Kemmler.  Even though some people think Loremaster Vamps and Ethereal or Flying Lv.4 is good, I still think he's overpriced (even if he has +1 to dispel!).  The reason why is because you can take a Lv.4 Master Necromancer for a lot cheaper and you can take Vamp or Death lore.  For the amount these guys cost, I think they're an essential buy in terms of magic potentinal because the Vampires will see more frontline action.

Vampire Lords are in the game and some say for the worse.  That's because they're more expensive, comes with 1 more attack but is only a Lv.1 Wizard at the start.  You can buy him up to 4, but he can become super expensive after all the levels.  I'd like to mention that all Vampires can now take mundane weapons, armor, shields and barded horses.  This gives them good protection without effecting their 100 points in Vampric Powers and 100 points if Magic items.  Believe me, there will be so many builds of different Vampire Lords that'll make everyone happy, even if Bloodlines are no longer in the game.  I'll get to the different magic items and vamp powers later.

Another lord-level character is the Ghoul King.  He has a lower WS of 6, but has I8, 5+ Regen, Poisoned attacks and Infinite Hatred (Hatred in every round of combat).  He's also a Lv.1 wizard and costs slightly more than a Vampire Lord and cannot carry magical armors.  However, this doesn't stop him from taking other things that can make him dangerous, as well as Vampric Powers.  Imagine this for a sec:  Ghoul King, Red Fury, Bloodshed Sword (+3 attacks), Potion of Strength.  8 attacks at S8, re-roll to hit WS6 and each wound becomes another attack.  Have fun with that one.

Krell makes an appearance, and I'm not too impressed.  He still comes with his Black Axe of Krell, the S6 ASL Great Weapon that inflicts D3 wounds.  The magical armor that he wears saves on 4+ and nullifies magic weapons ONLY if he saves with it.  That's pretty balls.  On top of that, Krell is relatively expensive for what he can do and he must always issue and accept challenges.  The good thing with him is that if you take Kemmler in the same unit, Krell gains Heroic Killing Blow on all his attacks during the challenge.

Moving on, we still see Konrad von Carstein in the game and he got a tad bit more expensive for another attack.  Yay for that, nay for the fact he lost Infinite Hatred.  He still has great stats, inflicts Multiple Wounds(2) on his attacks and Red Fury.  Still worth the points I think.  Necromancers are also in the book and they're great buys for a cheap Lv.1 or Lv.2 Wizard.  One Master Necro or normal Necro can take Master of the Dead for some points and gain the ability to raise Skeletons past their starting size.

Vampires are obviously in the game and they can be BSBs while carrying Vampric Powers, but I think the real winners of the hero-class goes to Wight Kings.  They are still T5 with 3 wounds, come with Heavy Armor, Shield and the ability to take barded steeds, lances and what not.  The great thing is that they're dirt cheap and are incredibly cost-effective with Killing Blow, durability and armor saves.  Just great and great.

Last but not least, we have the Cairn Wraiths and Banshees in the hero slot.  They haven't changed since they put them in a few months back and their uses are still the same.  Good, cheap, terror-causing guys that can kill things in combat and are Ethereal road blockers.

Phew, now that's done, let's move onto the other units in the book:

Starting with the core choices, I'll first note that Dire Wolves are back in the core slot.  They are 5-20 and gain Slavering Charge, which gives them +1S on the turn they charge.  Pretty cool to have an old rule back and I'm glad Phil Kelly decided to give VC some mobile core.  The true argument here is if they'll be better to take over the "improved" Zombies, Skeleton Warriors or Ghouls.  Let's look for a second.

Zombies are still ASL and WS1, which makes them awful in combat, but they are now S3 T3.  This makes them one of the best tarpit units in the game once you factor in their points.  However, for just 2 points more, you have a Skeleton Warrior unit which can take Full Command, has Light Armor/Shield and can upgrade to Spears.  On top of this, they can take a 25pt Magic Banner and call the unit complete.  How does this look compared to the Ghoul which is double the price of the Skeleton?  I'd say if I had to choose, Skeletons are my go-to unit in terms of raw balance.  Zombies die in the droves and kill absolutely nothing.  Skellies have armor saves, can take Parry saves and have Full Command.  Champions are incredibly important when challenging uber lords and keeping your necros out of combat, and that's something Zombies cannot offer (even though they can join the unit).  On top of this, Ghouls at the same stats but more expensive makes Skeletons more appealing.  Honestly, I don't think VC need punchy core units, that's what the Special and Rare choices are for.

So going off that, let's look at one of the most hated units in all of Warhammer:  The dreaded Grave Guard.  They're 1 point more than a Ghoul and come with excellent, excellent stats for the price.  S4, T4, built-in Killing Blow (although they lose magical weapons), Heavy Armor and Shield.  If this isn't amazing, I don't know what is.  With Drakenhoff Banner gone (Thank the Lord!), I think the ideal configuration is a big block of Grave Guard with HW/Shield.  The defensive buff is just too great to justify spending points on Great Weapons and no protection.  Not to mention the fact that you can protect your casters while still maintaining high kill ratios with your battle spells.  I'll get more on the spells later, but I still think Grave Guard are some of the best specials in the game.

The Corpse Cart has been moved to the Specials section and they gained a litle extra.  Just a little bit more expensive, but they gain +1W and Vigour Mortis.  VM states that when you cast an augment spell on the CC itself, all units within 6" gain the ASF rule.  On top of this, Zombies lose their ASL rule and gain the ASF rule specifically so they can strike first!  I think that's pretty cool.  They can still take Balefire and Unholy Lodestone and have Regen so what's not to like.

Black Knights are back and better than ever I think.  They went down a lot in points because you can choose to buy lances and barding for their steeds.  If you want them to run cheap, they can do that and still sport a good armor save while maintaining Killing Blow.  Blood Knights are also in the game with pretty much the same features except for +1I and cheaper.  Martial Honour is still in the unit so I don't see myself ever taking the unit champion upgrade, ever.  In addition, Blood Knights now can take their own fabled Flag of Blood Keep as a unit upgrade rather than take up space in the magic items section.

One of the biggest winners of the special section is the Spirit Host.  It's a lot cheaper and can be taken in units of 1.  This gives you great little speed bunps etherealing across the battlefield and that's always good.  I don't know if they're in the same category as Sabretusks, but they're definitely pretty good at what they cost.  Bat Swarms are also pretty good because any unit in BtB with one has the ASL rule (yes, any unit).  Going back to Ethereal, let's touch upon everyone's most talked about unit:  The Hexwraiths.  Unlike the rest of the internets, I'm telling you right now:  These guys are not as overpowered as what people say.  Sure, they are Ehtereal Fast Cav that can move through a target and force them to take S5 Magical, Flaming Attacks with No Armor saves, but they're pretty expensive for the damage they put out.  Not to mention they don't have Vampric and thus cannot march if not in range of the General.  This suddenly rates their Fast Cav status a little lower and makes people rethink their viability.  Also consider the fact that they die to a soft breeze of a magic missile and will cost a lot if your opponent takes them in numbers.  Personally, I think they're overrated.

Next, we look at Vargheists and Crypt Horrors.  I'll start with Vargheists first because I think they're the first flying Monstrous Infantry units in the game.  What's not to like about a bunch of flying, Frenzy S5, 3 attacks base, T4 dudes with 3W?  The Crypt Horrors are also pretty badass with T5, 5+ Regen and 3 Poisoned Attacks.  Factor in the fact that the Mortis Engine can turn that Regen into a 4+ and you've got yourself one heck of a durable unit.  In a VC army, anything that's not in full armor but contains this much durability is something to be respected.

The Black Coach is still in the game and it's slightly cheaper than it was last book.  That's great because these things can still cause a lot of trouble for anyone fighting against it.  Too bad they can't siphon your opponent's PD anymore.  Cairn Wraiths are still in the game with the same price under Rare (different from the hero versions) and so are Terrorgheists.

I guess I'll take this time to go over the Mortis Engine and Coven Throne.  The Mortis Engine is a rare that you can take that hands out Regen on your own units (it also has Regen itself).  Each turn, you roll a 2D6 and add the current turn number. That's the range of the Mortis Engine's Aura.  All enemy units take D6 hits equal to the strength of the current turn and friendly units gain +1 to their Regen save up to 4+.  If you roll a double, you take a wound with no saves of any kind.  You can also upgrade the Mortis Engine so that all wizards within 12" gain +2 to casting for Lore of the Vampires.  However, if you miscast, you roll the miscast result twice and your opponent picks which one to apply.

The Coven Throne is a mount that you can buy for your Lord.  It comes with some hot vampire chicks that swing with ASF and comes with a 4+ Ward.  The biggest thing to note with the Coven Throne is that it forces units in contact with it to do a Mind War.  You roll D6 + Ld. and your opponent does the same.  However the amount of points you beat him by, you apply to a chart that reads as the following: 0 does nothing, 1-2 is -1 WS and BS, 3-5 is re-roll all successful hits and 6+, the unit attacks itself.  Yes, the unit directs all the attacks it can put out onto itself.  To make matters worse for them, the Coven Throne comes with a Bound Spell 3 called Scrying Pool that if successfully casts, makes everything on the Coven Throne re-roll hit and wounds for the remainder of the turn.  Personally, as Blood Dragon, I would rather take a Zombie Dragon since it's cheaper than the last book, has +1T and +1W (but is now WS4), and still has Cloud of Flies and Pestilient Breath.

Alright, let's talk about the Lore of the Vampires, the vampiric powers and the items now:

The main attribute of the lore is called Curse of Undeath, and it heals the wizard or any friendly model within 12" for 1 wound.  That's a pretty good attribute if you ask me.

Invocation is the signature spell and it effects all units within 6/12/18" on the same, scaling casting levels.  Each time Invocation goes off, the unit is healed D6 + the wizard level of the person casting it.  Vampires, Ethreal or large models only ever get healed for 1 wound.

Vanhels is the next spell and it grants 8" movement if not engaged and re-roll hits to a unit.  It can be boosted to all units within 12" with the same effect.  Hellish Vigour is the next spell and it grants the unit re-roll wounds.  This can be boosted to effect all units within 12" with the same effect.  Next in the list is Gaze of Nagash and it wasn't really changed at all.  2D6 S4 missiles and can be boosted to go 48".  Raise Dead is still in the and it can be used to spawn Zombies or Skeletons (boosted) at 2D6+3 models.  Curse of Years is back and works exactly the same way as 7th and the big spell Winds of Undeath is decent.

Winds of Undeath is a magical vortex that when you cast it, you nominate a direction and roll the artillery dice x 3.  It moves that many inches and each unit beneath takes a D6 S3 hit (or S4 if boosted) for each rank of models in the unit w/ no armor save.  If you misfire, you center it on your unit and do the same thing. Good, but nothing in terms of Mindrazor, Dwellers or Purple Sun (and a good thing at that!).

As for Vampire Powers, here's what I see:

Master of the Black Arts - Expensive.  Re-roll one of the dice when determining Winds of Magic.  This can turn your otherwise crappy roll of 6 and 1 into 5 and 6.  A lot more dice to break open opponent defenses.

Curse of the Revenant - +1W is nothing to write home about with this price tag.

Red Fury - Great ability, allows you to build combat monsters capable of tearing through entire formations at a time.  I like to build my Vampire Lord with the Ogre Blade and just have him go to town with S7.  With 5A, each wound you put out generates another attack.  Too bad this freshly generated attacks cannot proc the next set.

Flying Horror - You fly.  Deal with it.

Quick Blood - The Vampire gains ASF and this is fantastic.  I7 Vampire Lords and I6 Vampires put out a decent amount of re-rolls with ASF.  Must take on any Vampire involved in close combat, and goes great with Red Fury because it's better than Infinite Hatred vs. equal or lower I targets.

Aura of Dark Majesty - Great price, great effect.  The -1 Ld. modifier might not seem like much now, but just you wait..

Dark Acolyte - +D3 to casting total for IoN.

Forbidden Lore - Loses Loremaster and you can take any lore from the BRB except for Life.  Still not bad.

Supernatural Horror - Terror.  Because Fear isn't good enough apparently.

Fear Incarnate - Absolutely amazing for the price.  Your opponents re-roll successful Fear tests.  If the BSB is nearby, the re-rolls cancel and your left with 1 fear test.  Combine this with Aura of Dark Majesty and things get ridiculous.  But wait, there's more....

Beguile - Cheap, -3 Leadership to model in BtB or you re-roll hits.

Master Strike - Trade all attacks for 1 with HKB.  Trash.  It should of been like the TK book where you nominate one attack to be HKB.

Dreadknight - +2WS, must always issue and accept challenges.  Trash, you're already WS7 and if you take this on your general, you're just waiting to get KB'd or killed by a better fighter.  This is also counter-intuitive with Red Fury and other combat heavy abilities.  I guess I would only take this on a Vamp Lord w/ Glittering Scales on a Zombie Dragon and I'm out to troll things.  WS9 with -2 to hit makes anything under WS5 hit you on 7s and lord-class people on 6s.

Summon Creatures of the Night - Cheap, can increase Dire Wolves, Bat Swarms and Fell Bats past their staring size.  No one will ever take this because of the price of Fell Bats.

Now that that's done, let's get to the Magic Items:

Skabscratch - Expensive.  Gives Frenzy, Devastating Charge, Flaming Attacks and have the Death Shriek rules.  If you can't kill a model by the time the game is over, you auto die.

Nightshroud - Necros can wear this too.  Can be combined with mundane armor because this is magical, so you can take this on a Vamp Lord on a Zombie Dragon.  +1 to AS, enemy models in BtB lose S bonus from things (e.g. Great Weapons), and ASL.

Banner of Barrows - +1 to hit for Wight models in close combat.  Same as last time, same price even.  But this can get better with a few tweaks.

Screaming Banner - Enemy Fear tests in combat with the unit rolls 3D6 (extra die) and discard the lowest.  OK, surprise is over.  Let's sum it up:  Aura of Dark Majesty gives -1 Ld., Fear Incarnate stops the BSB re-roll or forces him to re-roll successful Fear tests, Screaming Banner forces Fear tests on 3D6 discard the lowest.  WS1 unit vs. a Grave Guard unit with Banner of Barrows anyone?  Hit on 2s again while they hit on 5s?  Imagine the same combo on a unit of Blood Knights too.  This, ladies and gentlemen, is the new Fear-bomb combo.

Black Periphat - Saves 2 dice in PD or DD so you can use them as PD or DD next turn.

Staff of Damnation - Bound 4, augment, all friendly units within 6" gains Extra Attacks.  Pretty boss.

Cursed Book - Sac D3 PD for a random spell that goes off automatically on a D6 chart (non-boosted):  Mystifying Miasma, Enfeebling, Withering, Soulblight, Doom and Darkness, Curse of the Midnight Wind.

Book of Arkhan - Cheaper and has a Bound 3 Vanhels.  Does not burn out.

Rod of Flaming Death - Bound 3 Fire Cage from the Fire Lore essentially.

Well guys, I think that's pretty much it.  This is the entire book pretty much and I'm very happy with what I see.  Gone are the days of GGstars with Drakenhoff.  There's a lot of stuff in here that can spark a lot of interesting builds:  Blood Dragon builds with Fear-bombing Blood Knights and/or Grave Guard, Striogi builds with Terrorgheists, Mortis Engine, Ghoul King, Ghouls and Crypt Horrors, the list goes on.  I'm just happy that VC players everywhere can look across the table with a straight face instead of the same flavorless list.  I mean, look at the options man.. so many things to choose form.

I can't wait to see VC evolve as an army.

New VC and High Elves Tactica


Hey guys, I'm getting my hands on the book today and I'm gonna get on a review ASAP.

As for what I've been doing lately, I've been arguing with fellow High Elves players on Ulthuan.net.  One of the most raging topics is:  Do High Elves need the Book of Hoeth to be competitive?  Think of uncomped areas.

What do you guys think?  Personally, I think you don't NEED it to be competitive, but it certainly helps a lot!

Check out this massive tactica I wrote on Ulthuan.net.  It's basically all the HE info on this site transferred over plus a few more things.

Tuesday, January 10, 2012

My 2500pt Ogre army!


Looks something like this..

2471

LORDS:
Lv.4 Slaughtermaster (IF, Hellheart, AoD) = 388
Gut Magic

HEROES:
Bruiser (BSB, GW, 2+, Ironcurse) = 191
Lv.1 Firebelly (GW, Scroll) = 154

CORE:
9x Ogres (FC, IF) = 323
6x Ironguts (FC, Discipline) = 308

SPECIAL:
4x Mournfang (FC, HA/IF, Dragonhide) = 360
4x Leadbelchers = 172
4x Leadbelchers = 172
Sabretusk = 21
Sabretusk = 21
Sabretusk = 21

RARE:
Ironblaster = 170
Ironblaster = 170

The Lv.4 SM has 4+ armor, 6+ parry and 4+ ward.  He also carries the Hellheart to mess with enemy wizards.  I guess it goes without saying that he's been officially approved to carry armor because the designers failed to catch it.  That's perfectly fine with me!  I just wish all Ogres could parry with Ironfists regardless of what weapon they're carrying.  Visually, that would make more sense to me because of the way Ironfists look.  Anywho, the rest of the heroes look pretty standard.  BSB enjoys a 2+ save and carries a Great Weapon, the Firebelly carries a scroll and Great Weapon himself.  All 3 of those heroes will sit comfortably in the 6 Irongut unit for a total of 2x 3x3 blocks to make up the main belly force.

The Special slots are also pretty standard:  3x Sabretuks as better Eagles, 4x Mournfangs with all the bells and whistles, and 2 units of 4x Leadbelchers so I can shoot things to death.  I was thinking maybe cutting the squad down to 6x Leadbelchers and then buffing up either the Ironguts or Bulls, what do you guys think?

Lastly, I'm taking 2x Ironblasters because I think shooting big ass S10 cannons is ridiculous.  Plus, they're not bad in combat and they're really tough to kill!

Other things I might do is as follows:
SM takes Glittering Scales and Fencer Blades to make him almost unhittable in combat.
I find room for another Bruiser with 4+ ward for another beatstick.
I drop some Leadbelchers and maybe a Ironblaster for more Core units.

Is it me or is this army really small?  I normally deploy 100+ elf models to the table and this is looking quite sad!  I guess I should be counting wounds and not actual models?  It just looks really funny to me lol.

Monday, January 9, 2012

BR: 2500pts HE vs. DoC


I had this game about a week ago but people on Ulthuan.net is complaining about my lack of battle reports.  So... I'll write this one up even though it was a pretty unimpressive game.

My list:
Lv.4 Archmage with Book, Shadow Lore
Noble BSB with GW, AoC, GP
Lv.1 Mage w/ Sigil, High Lore
32x Spears w/ FC, Lion Standard
30x Spears w/ FC
20x Phoenix Guard w/ FC, Banner of Sorcery
30x White Lions w/ FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
12x Sword Masters w/ Musician
2x Great Eagles

His list:
Lv.4 Chicken Lord w/ re-roll and Loremaster Life
Khorne BSB w/ AoK and Great Standard of Sundering
Changeling in a unit of Lv.3 Wizard Horrors
Slaanesh Herald w/ Siren Song in a big unit of 30x Daemonettes w/ FC,
Big unit of 30x Bloodletters w/ Khorne Herald
Small MSU unit of Flesh Hounds
6x Flamers of Tz
3x Fiends of Slaanesh
5x Seekers w/ FC

  • I think that's it off the top of my head, but I won the roll to go first.  We played Battleline.  I get Mindrazor, Withering, Pit and Miasma for spells.
  • Deployment looked something like.. WL, Lion Spears, Spears, PG, SM, with Eagle1 behind the Lion Spears and Eagle2 behind the Sword Masters.  The way I deployed was so my Spear units faced his Khorne and Daemonettes, Sword Masters facing towards the Seekers and Phoenix Guard across from the Bloodletters too.
  • First turn sees me push models forward but not greedily.  Eagle1 flies near a building and my White Lions angle behind a medium sized building so I can assist the Lion Spears.  PG Mage bunker moves up 5" and casts Miasma on his Daemonettes.  He makes me re-roll but I still IF and everything is reduced by 1.  Eagle2 flies forward on an angle towards his Seekers forcing a bait so my Sword Masters can get some.
  • His turn sees the Seekers charge the Eagle and I promptly flee.  He fails to catch but moves up some but not as long as I hoped.  The rest of his units semi-march and they move a bit long but they're far from charge range.  His magic gets thrown around for Dwellers but I dispel with ease because poor rolling.
  • My turn sees the Siren Song triggered on my Lion Spears and I take the charge.  I roll insanely well and I get in combat from 16" away.  My White Lions are confused where the Spears they were supposed to guard went.  Seeing that happen, I move up my White Lions, move up my other Spear regiment to cover the other Lion Spear's flank and re-position Eagle1 to block his Flesh Hounds from flank-charging my Spears.  My Sword Masters on the far right also rolls high for charges (a 10) and gets in combat with the Seekers from 15" away.  We both didn't see this coming and it was quite unexpected.  The right most Eagle flies back towards the army center.
  • Magic sees Miasma and Mindrazor go off IF on the Spear unit that hit combat and I promptly maul the Herald with ease.  Due to WS and I being nerfed by 3 and Spearmen attacking in 3 ranks on the charge, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s, I inflict a good amount of kills on the unit.  He attacks back, lose by 3 and takes his Unstable tests.  My Sword Masters, chew through his Seekers and surge forward an almighty 6 inches to get shot to shit by the Flamers.
  • His next phase sees the Flesh Hounds charge the middle Eagle who takes it to the face.  Since his Fiends couldn't get around the building his big block of Daemonettes and my Spears were fighting by, he had to take the long route around.  They sure can move though, so he positions by the rear of my Spears.  His Khorne Daemons also charge my PG mage bunker and fails the charge, even with Icon of Endless War.  He ends just a little bit short and sad times are to be had.  Magic sees him successfully cast +2T on his Bloodletters after I fail to dispel.  Of course, his Flamers murders all but 5 of my Sword Masters but they hold on double 1s.  Combat sees Eagle1 perish horribly and him re-positioning his Flesh Hounds to the flank of my Lion Spears again.
  • Next turn, I block his Fiends with my Eagle and re-direct them into nothingness.  I charge my White Lions into the side of his Flesh Hounds and my Spears run into his Bloodletters.  My Sword Masters charge his Flamers because I'm 8" away and I get in there with ease.  Magic sees Mindrazor IF on the Spears (on Bloodletters) and he makes me re-roll my doubles.  I roll another doubles and things are sad.  On top of this, I also get off Miasma on the Bloodletters and nerf them by 2.  Since the Slaneesh Herald is gone, my other Spears maul his Daemonettes but they strike back with titanic fury, killing a bunch of Spears.  Combat is closer than I thought and the daemongirls continue to hold.  My Sword Masters chop down a good amount of the Flamers and they swung back, killing none in return, only to be killed by Unstable.  They reform into the rear of the Bloodletters.  The Razorspears ASF into the Herald with 6 attacks and he lives through bad rolls and good ward saves.  The rest of the Bloodletters are not so lucky and many are fell, but not before they swung back and kill a good amount of Spears.  He loses combat but rolls well to hold.  The White Lions kill off the rest of the Flesh Hounds and then overrun into the Horrors who did practically nothing all game.
  • On his turn, he has no choice but to charge my Eagles and I re-direct him into no where.  The last Eagle dies but his death was justified because his Fiends did nothing and his Seekers got lucked by the SMs.  In magic, I let Throne of Vines through, dispel Regen on the Bloodletters, let Flesh to Stone go on the Daemonettes so I can Sigil his Dwellers on my Phoenix Guard and remove it from the game.  Combat from the White Lions sacs the Horrors even with the Champion switched by the Changeling, the Lion Spears lose combat to the T5 Daemonettes but holds firmly, and the Bloodletters continue to get mauled by my MR Spears.  The Eagle's death sees his Fiends turn towards my Phoenix Guard, who just looks at them with confusion.
  • On my turn, I clean up the majority of his army with IF MR on the Spears vs. Bloodletters (who are now rear-charged by the Sword Masters) and Withering on the Daemonettes.  The winds of magic have been in my favor all game and every doubles that he forced me to re-roll has turned into another.  Seeing the seemingly unstoppable Elves trounce through the majority of his army with little to no opposition, we call the game here.

Post-game thoughts:
  • Pretty lucky overall this game.  Book went off IF every time with no miscasts.  The winds were also plentiful, giving me ~8 dice every phase and he couldn't stop my magic no matter what.
  • This just shows how powerful a Book list is because it literally overrides any weakness the High Elves have in combat and deliver decisive results where you want it, when you want it.  It also allows you to make bolder plays because you can take on enemies you otherwise wouldn't.  If you think about it, it also makes the herald buffs quite useless for the Daemons.
  • ASF and re-rolls really, really hurt Daemons.  The biggest worry was the Daemonette Herald but once she was done, the rest of the unit just took a beating every turn.
  • I played the Eagles nicely, and they do wonders in every game I play with them.

Sunday, January 8, 2012

Tactica: High Elves vs. Daemons of Chaos


I will most likely do one of these a month depending on what the monthly poll turns into here.  It will be more competitive focused and will be a LIVING Tactica encompass the current meta.  This will continue as long as High Elves are using the same army book.

I've also gathered all the articles I have here and re-posted most of them on Ulthuan.net.  You can find the thread here:  HERO's Guide to High Elf Glory [8th Edition]

Without further ado, let's get into the nitty gritty.  The format of these tacticas will also be more straight forward and gets to the point quicker.  My reasoning is that people just want to know 2 things:  What the hell does that unit do and how do I kill it?

So with that in mind, I'll list out a bunch of units, characters or something and then provide an answer.

High Elves vs. Daemons of Chaos
Match-up Analysis

Daemon Special Rules
The first thing you have to know is that the entire army causes Fear, has a 5+ ward and have magical attacks.  They are also Immune to Psychology so they do not care if they get owned, they just take Unstable tests and move on with life.

Deal with it.

Greater Daemons
There are 4 Greater Daemons of Chaos and they're all equally ridiculous one way or another.  I'll note what they commonly do here:

Bloodthirster - WS10, 7 attacks, I9, Immortal Fury gives re-rolls to hit, Obsidian Armor (3+ save) makes it so magical weapons count as mundane and Firestorm Blade makes him S7 with flaming attacks.  He can also take a scroll if he just takes Armor of Khorne (3+ save).

Keeper of Secrets - WS9, 6 Armor Piercing attacks with ASF I10, moves 10 and can take Siren Song.  Can cast spells and murder things in close combat for a pretty affordable price.

Great Unclean One - T6 with 10 wounds, WS4 but carries a Flail, Balesword and Noxious Vapours.  S8 on the charge and he wounds automatically.  Each wound translates to D6 wounds and Noxious Vapours robs you of ASF and makes you ASL.  He might also carry a S4 breath that he can do in combat to generate combat res.

Lords of Change - Flying bird with T6 and 5 wounds.  I6 so you can't really sink him with PoS or anything.  Capable of Lore Master + Tzeentch's Will which allows him to re-roll 1 die during each player phase.  This can be used to cause an IF, turn a crappy roll into a great roll, so on and so forth.

There's no real answer to Greater Daemons because they're just really powerful.  Mindrazor something and hope you roll a good number of hits.  Reducing their toughness, WS and I can also help even the playing field, but no mere mortal can hope to triumph against a Greater Daemon with positive results.  The BT and KoS especially murder units in combat.  If the BT take a Firestorm Blade, you can answer it with Dragon Armor.  As for the KoS, you're pretty much shit out of luck.  The GUO just stays around forever and can't be challenged unless you want to die horribly.  I haven't seen GUO in a while, but I have seen the rest of the 3 a lot of the time.  Keep in mind that if they take a Greater Daemon, that's a lot of points they're directing into one character.  Use this to your advantage.

SC: Kairos Fateweaver
This guy is the most flexible spellcaster in all of Warhammer.  He basically has 2 heads that knows any 8 spells of his choosing from the BRB.  Kairos also knows the entire Lore of Tzeentch, which gives him 14 spells total.  He can also cast with +2 to any casting roll and re-roll any die per player phase.  Daemonic Robes also means he can never be wounded on a 2+ and he sports a 3+ ward save.

What I would do personally is Pit of Shades the bastard.  He if goes Kairos, you bring Teclis and you PoS IF on top of his face.  He has I1 so anything short of bad luck will end him flat out.  At 625 points, if he dies, you basically roll over the rest of his army.

SC: Skulltaker
WS9, I9, 4 attacks with S6 Hatreds towards everybody.  All his attacks count as flaming and he can get a 1+ AS when mounted on a Juggernaught and have MR2.  The best part of it is that he HKBs everything in the game on 5+.

Dragon Armor all day long.  He has to issue and accept challenges so you can tank him all day with a random Dragon Helm on a unit champ.

SC: Changeling
He swaps the target's WS, S, T, I, and A values and uses them against him!  A built-in Arch-lector that works in base to base, nice.

Not much you can do about it but kill him because he doesn't have ASF like you do.  He's actually pretty mediocre if you do not have amazing fighty characters.

SC: The Masque
Basically a Herald that can't join units and has a 3+ ward save.  The worst part of this stupid daemon is that she chooses a target within 12" and reduces its leadership by D3.  She can also reduce its movement values by D3 and neither of those require LoS.

Try to snipe her if you can.  She's only T3 with 2W so you can use your Magic Missiles to end her obnoxious life.  Since she can't join units and the game is TLoS now, she can be neutralized with a well-placed 2d6 S4.

Heralds
Each herald is capable of doing awesome things once they join a unit matching its Chaos God.  The Herald of Khorne gives Bloodletters Hatred to all enemies, Tzeentch gives the Horror unit 4+ ward, Nurgle Heralds give regen, and Slaanesh gives the entire unit ASF.  The most painful ones for us is Bloodletters and Daemoenttes because one hits like a ton of bricks with ASF and the other just denies us of our key benefits. All of these heralds can be found in horde-sized units of the above mentioned daemons.  The most common ones I see these days is the Daemonette horde with Siren Song and Siren Standard and Bloodletters with Icon of Endless War.  Tz Heralds are kind of different because they can take Loremaster of any Lore and Spell Breakers (scroll).  Sometimes they fly around and sometimes they baby sit a Horror unit.  This gives them flexibility in what they want to do.

A lot of these Heralds can be sniped out by stuff like Dwellers or any ability that hits the entire unit. Death Lore is great at picking out characters and Shadow offsets their benefits by reducing their stats to garbage.  Who cares about ASF or Hatred if you're WS1 or striking with shit strength.  Just use your magic to counterbalance the bonuses the Heralds offer.

Daemon Magic
There are 3 key lores from the Daemon book and all of them are dirt cheap to cast.  The reason being is that it's a 7th Ed. book going into 8th so the prices of spells haven't changed.  Damnit.. the spells are really good too.

Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
The big ones here is Flickering Fire, Glean Magic, Bolt of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm.  Flickering Fire is a 18" D6+1 SD6+1 missile that's cheap as hell to cast.  Bolt of Change does it even better with 2D6 SD6+4 hits for a mere 12+!  Glean Magic allows the daemon to cast an enemy Wizard's spell as if it was one of their own and Tzeentch's Firestorm is just downright dirty funny.  It's a magical missile with 24" that does 2D6 S5 hits.  For every 3 wounds, it creatures a Pink Horror within 3" of the new target unit.  The new unit can now re-direct and hamper charges next turn because they're cool like that.

Daemon Lore of Nurgle
Nurgle is just really frustrating to play against for High Elves.  All of the spells are really useful and they're dirt cheap to cast.  Miasma reduces WS, S, T, I and A to 1 to all enemy models in base contact and it casts on a 3+.  Stream of Corruption is a 6+ breath weapon (cannot be used in combat) that causes a toughness test or take a wound with no armor save.  Pit of Slime forces a S-test or it can't move or shoot from 24".  Rancid Visitation cases D6 S5 hits to a unit and then it must pass a T-test or it continues on and on until the unit is destroyed or passes the T test.  Shrivelling Pox is a character sniper that forces a T-test or suffer D6 wounds with no armor saves.  Plague Wind forces an entire unit to take a T-test or suffer a wound with no armor saves.  For every 3 unsaved wounds, place Nurglings near the unit so you can use it to re-direct and block charge lanes as well.

Daemon Lore of Slaanesh
Acquiescence is weak because Stupidity is no longer an issue with BSB.  Cacophonic Caress is still a problem because it effects all units within 2D6" of the caster to take D6 S3 no armor saves.  Succor of Chaos is amazing at 7+ because all the models in the unit gains ASF and re-rolls to hit.  Slicing Shards and Pavane of Slaanesh are both useful once Phantasmagoria hits the battlefield.  All enemy units on the table must roll an extra D6 hen taking Leadership tests and discard the lowest.  Can you imagine all the Fear and Terror tests in addition to all the crazy leadership nerfs Slaanesh can put on the table?  Not to mention it casts on a 10+!

Personally, I would try to counter with Shadow, Life and Death, in that order.  Shadow's hexes counters a lot of Herald buffs and makes your units deadlier in combat.  Life offers Dwellers and increased Toughness so your Elves and survive combat with the enemy and out attrition them.  Death gives you the ability to snipe enemy Heralds and allows you to debuff the entire army with Soulblight.

Nasty Combos
Daemonette Horde + Herald, Full Command, Siren Standard, Siren Song/Soporific Musk on Herald
A ton of ASF S3 Armor Piercing attacks at I5 WS5 and 2 attacks a piece.  Siren Song makes it so you have to charge them or flee, and Siren Standard makes it so you have no choice but to hold if they charge you.  If you lose combat to them and run, you roll an extra dice when fleeing and then discard the highest result.

Take the charge with your Spears and nerf the crap out of the unit with hexes.  You should be able to out attrition them as long as you kill the herald first.  Once she dies, the unit no longer has ASF so you'll be able to drastically thin the horde's ranks.  Know what Siren Song and Siren Standard can do and use your Eagles to re-direct and prevent forced charges.

Bloodletter Horde + Herald, Full Command, Icon of Endless War, Armor of Khorne/Firestorm Blade on Herald
A ton of WS5 S5 Killing Blow attacks with Hatred.  On the turn they charge, they add D6" to their charge distance because of Icon and the Herald has a 3+ armor save with S7 flaming attacks.  Not much to say here man.. they hit like a truck.

This unit might hit like a truck, but it's easily re-directed with Eagles and doesn't fare too well in combat with your buffed-up Elves.  If you take Shadow, you can nerf this unit into the ground and then kill them in combat with your ASF and higher I.  S5 doesn't mean much when its nerfed and WS means less if they're not hitting all the time.  If you can kill his herald with one of your champions you can eliminate their Hatred all together.  You can even buy a Standard of Balance if you so wish.

Great Icon of Despair + Masque + Daemon Lore of Slaanesh
The Great Icon makes all enemy units within 12" suffer -2 to their leadership.  Masque makes a unit lose D3 leadership.  This in turn makes the Daemon Lore of Slaanesh stronger and Phantasmagoria ridiculous.  Fear Tests and Terror all over the place will just make you hate life.

Try to kill Masque and the wielder of the Great Icon of Despair.  Once these units are neutralized, you should be in a good place.  The sad part is that Masque will almost always be hiding somewhere in the back, but the Great Icon of Despair will be somewhere in the front lines.  Since it's a 75-point banner, you know that only a BSB can wield it.  This paints a nice little target over their head.  What's really annoying is when they put it on a Slaanesh Herald on a Seeker and have it join a decent unit of Seekers.  Lion Standard and Standard of Balance is a nice way to nullify fear tests, the same applies to having Caradryan in a unit or having a Champion carry the Mask of Eee!

**Things to watch out for!**

Flesh Hounds - M8, Hatred, WS5 S5 2 attacks a piece with MR3
Seekers of Slaanesh - M10 Fast Cav with Siren Standard.  WS5 S3 AP and can harbor a herald for ASF.
Bloodcrushers - A crapton of WS5 S6, 5 attacks with KB and 2W each.  Sports a nice +3 to the rider's armor save too.
Flamers of Tzeentch - One of the most hated units in the game.  D6 S4 flaming shots each with no multiple shot penalty and for very good points.  Also Skirmishing.
Fiends of Slaanesh - M10 S4 AP with 4 attacks a piece, 3 wounds T4 with Soporific Musk.

Sword Master the Flesh Hounds because they'll run into a flurry of blades and die horribly.  Normal Spears should take care of them just fine.  Seekers are fast and will wait until you're vulnerable before they hit.  Once they do, that's a lot of attacks and at ASF with herald that you might not like. Bloodcrushers get mauled once they get nerfed in combat and you force enough wounds.  Mindrazor gives you good results against them.  The same applies to Fiends of Slaanesh because they don't have ASF.  Flamers are murderous against everything in your army because of your T3 and 5+ save.  However, I would charge a unit of Dragon Princes right up their ally any day of the week.

Siren Song - One use, nominate a enemy unit within 20" and you must charge or flee.  One of the dirtiest items in the game because you can literally force a unit to fail charge, get into charge range of your own unit, or expose its flank for your units to rampage through them.  That, or you force it to flee.  Basically the best trapping item in the entire game.

Great Standard of Sundering - Choose a Lore of Magic.  All Wizards suffer a -2 penalty to cast from that Lore.  If you're using Lore of Light, you miscast on any doubles of 1, 2 and 3.  The only reason why I didn't recommend Lore of Light is because of this item.  Good thing it's either this or Great Icon of Despair, so once you know he has one he can't have the other.

The best defense with Siren Song is to analyze the position of his KoS and Heralds.  Position your units so you don't fall into any traps and use your Eagles to block possible flankers/chargers.  Re-direct the best you can and really think about your movement and positioning.  Standard of Balance also works for Siren Song because it makes the unit ITP.  As for the Great Standard of Sundering, you just gotta kill that thing.  Lore of Light would be great against Daemons if not for that banner and even so, it's -2 to your casting value is brutal.  Death Lore is a powerful sniping tool but I'd still take Shadow for the most part.

In a pickle: Vamps or Ogres


Right now, I'm still pretty undecided.  Both armies are 8th Ed. books which means balanced, fun and well-designed.  I currently own High Elves and I used to have Dwarfs.. but I sold them off because I didn't "feel" them.  I always ended up going back to High Elves..

Right now, the only thing I have built for Vampires right now is my 10x Dragon Princes to be used as (well, Dragon Princes) Blood Knights.  I have nothing for Ogres but a whole bunch of stuff for my Vampires.  This totals up to 80x Mantic Ghouls, 30x Mantic Zombies and 40x GW Grave Guard still sitting in boxes.  Let's list a bunch of pros and cons and see what happens:

First, I need an army that's radically different than High Elves.  Let's go over what High Elves are known for:
  • Elite troops, everywhere, nothing is expendable and everything costs an assload of points.
  • This also means they ASF, re-rolls to hit with high WS and Initiative
  • Masters of magic, know all the lores, wields High Magic
  • Dragons are big and powerful, have Griffon friends and Eagle allies
  • Fairy little girly Elves connotation
  • Aesthetically beautiful pleasing to look at; a beautiful army made of silver and azure
  • Everything is on infantry bases or cavalry bases for the most part
  • Requires expert generalship to win out these days.  I'd rate HE as one of the hardest armies to play right now if you avoid the book and Teclis due to the nature of the army.
  • Probably somewhere in the middle for popularity
  • Assloads of models to assemble, but this is my first army and I have everything already

So what about Ogres?
  • Big and fat; monstrous troops, cavalry and monsters all over
  • Still elite because of the points that goes into everything gives you..
  • High toughness, low armor, but a lot of wounds per model.  Low WS and low Initiative.
  • Not masters of magic, but have interesting hungry Gut magic
  • No Dragons, but Giants, Cannons pulled by Rhinox, Mourfangs (bearcats), freaking Mammoths!
  • The exact opposite of little girly Elves with big, burly, fat, questionably manly, full-retard Ogres
  • Aesthetically hysterical to look at.. not beautiful in the slightest but.. interesting..
  • Bases are mostly monster bases with lots of chariot and monster bases too
  • Requires solid generalship since your Ogres are few, your charges must be well-calculated and you have to know which models you can break with combat and which ones you can't.  Primarily melee-orientated army.
  • Not a really popular army, a plus for me
  • Very few models to assemble because everything is big and burly

OK.. now Vampire Counts..
  • The core of the army is expendable troops with elite supporting elements
  • Crappy WS expendable troops with powerful fighter lords, cavalry, killing blow elite infantry and cav
  • A mix of points spread around.. dirt cheap fodder and expensive elites
  • Very solid magic with a good mix of movement, augments and power
  • Big Undead Dragons, Terrorgheists, spectral ethereal stuff, Coven Throne, and flying Vargheists
  • Not really girly per se, but Vampires have that emo connotation about them (e.g. Twilight)
  • Aesthetically a mix of zombies, skeletons, Vampire Knights (HUGE!), ghosts and a mix of the above
  • Bases are very diverse too; core is mostly infantry with powerful knights to giant monsters
  • Pretty low generalship I'd say.  In 7th Ed, it was all Innvo-spamming GGdeathstar and Blood Knight bus of doom.  In 8th, almost nothing changed.  Regen Banner in a GGstar with +1 to hit or BK bus in almost all games.
  • Probably the biggest bandwagon of Fantasy to date (think GK to 40K)
  • A fucking million models to assemble because of all the cannon fodder

The biggest problem I have right now is that I simply cannot decide on what army I want.  In a nut shell, VC really appeal to me because of Blood Knights and fighty Vampire Lords.  I'm not a huge fan of undead, I don't care much for the whole zombie-revive undead mechanic.  Aeshetically, I just want to see fully armored vampiric knights riding into battle, smashing against anything in the game and winning.  It's a pretty linear way of thinking when it comes to Vampires I think.  I really hate the emo connotation and the caster lord in a bunker playstyle what might be effective.  It's really all about the Blood Knights for me, Blood Dragons or mauling the opponents in vicious hand-to-hand combat.  I want superiority in WS, skill and martial prowess.  Maybe that was one of the reasons why I was attracted to High Elves but also Khorne Daemons.

Ogres also appeal to me because they're funny.  I think if you want playstyles, Ogres are pretty much the exact opposite of High Elves.  They're slow, low WS but fast to get into combat and just smash things aside.  They're vulnerable to I-test spells or anything that can dispatch them before they can do serious damage.  The low WS doesn't help either, showing me that the army is pretty much made out of brawlers and lowly-trained fat people who use their guts as protection.  However, they do have BEARCATS! in the form of Mourfang Cavalry.  My wife calls me bear because she thinks I'm big and burly (maybe I'm getting heavier?) and this is something that I'm willing to accept.  They also have awesome cannons, radically eccentric fluff and powerful warbeasts.  I also think they're pretty characterful simply because the Ogres themselves are funny, almost a parody of wargaming.  I can't really picture an army made of Shreks.. can you?  Definitely something different from the seriousness that is High Elves (and me for that matter).

Well, there you have it folks.  Everyone knows me as the guy that plays High Elves but now I'm looking for a second army to offset that.  I just don't know!  Help! (more below)

For me, I usually choose an army based on the following in order of importance:

The "coolness" factor
Army design, skill factor and playstyle
Popularity
Lore

The "coolness" factor

Vampire Knights are REALLY cool to me, as is the Grave Guard/Black Knights and spectral riders.  I'm a fan of the Zombie Dragon and the Terrorgheist, but everything else is meh.  I don't see myself ever buying the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne.  I don't like the undead.. but I like Blood Knights and Vampires.  Interesting..

I like how Gut magic works and I think that's outrageous.  A Slaughtermaster eats something loudly and belches it out and something magical happens is just.. ridiculous.  Freaking Ice Mammoths, Bearcats and Ogres totting cannons.  Super cool.

Even though I like the idea of Blood Knights, I won't be using the models.  The Dragon Princes are just perfect for me because I love the look of them.  Besides, aren't Blood Dragons supposed to have Dragon iconography?  I'll probably convert a Vamp Lord to ride a steed, but I actually like the Ogre models more.  There's just more diversity in there instead of ranks and ranks of cannon fodder that all looks the same backed by a few specials.

Vampires have a "cooler" feel to them, especially to a player who plans on using a lot of vampires who focuses on martial skill, but Ogres have better models imo.  Fuck me, this looks to be a tie.

Winner: Tie

The playstyle of the army

Vampire playstyle is basically this in a nutshell:  Cannon fodder holds things in place, they're Unbreakable so who cares.  The cannon fodder sucks ass in combat anyway, but no matter how many your opponent kills, you'll just res them up and wait for your heavy hitting Knights or Grave Guard to get in there.  Once that happens, two scenarios arise:  You hit the enemy like a ton of bricks and force enough wounds to either break them, or don't break and your opponent swings back at the fodder, thus killing your expensive units as well because of the undead rules.  Anyone with a brain will swing into the fodder instead of Blood Knights imo.

The army requires wizards and casters to constantly bring the dead back to life.. or unlife I don't know.  They can't march without being near Vampires and once the general of the army dies, the entire army begins to crumble into the dust.  The plus side is that despite all the cannon fodder in the army, you get to be a WS9 Vampire Lord or have really elite Blood Knights fighting for you.  I like the idea of high WS because that's supposed to resemble you on the battlefield.. and high WS makes my ego higher.

Ogres playstyle is this:  Push models forward, calculate which models needs to go where to inflict the largest amount of casualties to force a break.  Not as straight forward as 7th Ed. Khorne Daemons, but the idea is to get into close combat and use your fat to break the enemy lines.  Magic has a lot of augments that can be cheaply cast to buff your Ogres in combat and in toughness.  Your WS is bleh but your strength and toughness is above average.  In short, Might is Right.

However, when you look at how VC players win their games, they do so with 4+ Regen Banner, +1 hit to hit, Great Weapon Grave Guard OR... Blood Knight bus with all the right tools.  This is a very linear way of playing.  For Ogres, I have cannons, Mourfang, Ironguts, Bulls, Leadbelchers.. just a lot more units who all have very different roles on the battlefield.  This is a more combined arms approach and offers a lot more win conditions and replay value than what VC offers.

Winner: Tie

Army popularity

There are 7 VC players at my nearest GW and a couple more are bound to start up.  I know zero Ogre in the area.

Winner: Ogres

The background and lore

Undead, don't really care for that much.  Vampire invades lands, gets triple-teamed by Empire/Bretonnia/Dwarves and gets owned.  Tries again in a few decades.  They're dead, so you can't really kill them and they constantly get brought back.  Not much for background and lore there.  The only thing I like is the Blood Dragon lore, and Walach and the knights of Blood Keep.

Ogres, just outrageous lore and background.  I like the story more.

Winner: Ogres

Still not sure.... since I'm a gamer first so I really care about the playstyle and rules.  I also really care about the coolness factor but both these things are tied!  HELPPPPPPP

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