Can you build competitive and fluffy?

Before we go too deep into the lines of soul-searching, let's lay down some definitions first.  For me, the word competitive means to play your best.  This means improving on your generalship, optimizing your army list and designing an well-tuned army. I tagged an assload of articles I wrote previously and labeled them as "recommended".  These articles speak of list synergy, threat application and cost effectiveness.  This is the type of knowledge that I apply when playing competitively.

Now what about fluffy?  Or better yet, my definition of fluff:  You build your army how the army was designed to be played.  Space Wolves should be seeking a glorious death in combat and Blood Angels should be charging into the fray.  This is the element of fluff that I'm talking about and this is what I design most of my army lists around.  My recent article on BoLS called "Remembering Who We Are" covers my thoughts on this much more vividly.

As you guys have noticed, my blog's pretty much a competitive blog with a thematic twist.  You'll never see any Razorfang or RB spam lists here; instead you'll see well-tuned army lists trying to make my creations work.  I see army list construction a game in itself, and I take great pride in kicking ass with an army spewed from my own creativity.

My current army lists:

Space Wolves
Wolf Lord w/ TH/SS, Saga of the Bear
Rune Priest w/ Chooser and WTN
3x 9x Grey Hunters w/ WG in Rhinos
7x Wolf Guard Terminators in a LRC
3x Predator w/ AC/LC

The Wolf Lord Lagnar and his companion Rune Priest is leading the Space Wolves into battle.  Three Grey Hunter squads in Rhinos will insure mid-field security while the Predators draw the enemies up close .  Once that happens, Lagnar and his entire retinue of Wolf Guard Terminators will charge into the fray and slay any opposition.  This tactic is known as the Wolf's Jaws.

Blood Angels
Mephiston
3x 10x ASM jumpers w/ Fist and Meltas
2x Sanguinary Priests w/ Jump Packs
3x Baal Preds w/ HB sponsons
3x Preds w/ AC/LC

Chief Librarian Mephiston is leading an expedition force of Blood Angels.  At the front of the assault is a spearhead of Baal Predators followed by long-range supporting fire from AC/LC Preds.  Despite having full access to the Chapter's Rhinos and Razorbacks, Mephiston and his battle-brothers choose to take the fight to their enemies in the way the Blood Angels know best:  Death from above.

Grey Knights
Librarian
3x 10x GKSS in Rhinos w/ Psycannons and Psybolts
6x Paladins w/ Apothecary and 2x MC Psycannons
3x Rifleman Dreads w/ Psybolts

The Grey Knights strike at the heart of the enemy with devastating medium-range firepower while the Chapter's Dreadnoughts offer long-range support.  Having recently retro-fitted their armored brothers with Twin-linked Autocannons, Librarian Larrus is confident that the enemy will founder.  Should the battle go ill, Larrus and his retinue of Paladins will teleport to the battle directly and make swift work of any assailant.

Dark Eldar
Vect
2x Raiders w/ 5x Warriors
3x Raiders w/ 10x Wyches
3x Venoms w/ 3x Trueborn w/ Blasters
3x Ravagers w/ NS and FF

Asdrubael Vect has always been a warrior without peer.  His arrogance is so great, the mere thought of haemonculi "helping" his army disgusts him.  As Vect invades his target destination, he does it with the speed and precision that the Dark Kin is known for.  With a flash of utter darkness, nothing is left save for the burning wreckage of his foes.  As the darklights fade, so does the opponent's chances of victory.

Let's be fair now.  Do any of these lists looks WAAC and min-maxed for the Ard Boyz win?  They're fine-tuned, definitely, but aside from repetition that can be viewed as spam by some, I don't see any any uber powerful lists here.  My Space Wolves uphold their virtues in seeking a glorious death and my Blood Angels will charge head first into battle.  You might think that's a lot of AV13 armor, but shit, I pretty much coined the phrase 3/3 and I've been using variants of that list since day 1.

What do you guys think about my lists?  They're certainly not the lists you tend to see on other sites but you come here for tactical advice none the less.  I must be doing something right.

Space Marine Mixed Armor Tactica

This is the long awaited vehicle tactica that deals with different armor groups, notably the AV13 toys that Space Marines have to play with.  One of the biggest follies in the 40K gaming community is that Predators and Vindicators suck because of their static nature and fixed firing ports.  A lot of people see this as a weakness because these two tanks, as dominate as they are in the front arc with their AV13 hulls, have AV11 side armor.  This means that every time they pivot and shoot, they're as durable as Rhino.

That must suck right?  Wrong.  This guide will show you the folly in your ways with some tested battle formations.  I took all these pics using my iPhone since my attempts at MS Paint sucked harder than it should have.  Keep in mind that this tactica is designed for a mechanized army.  Some elements in this guide may or may not work depending on what you field.

Linebreaker formation, pushing up in force.

So over here, you see the typical Linebreaker formation.  Alternating armor values with everything moves up in a straight line. The entire army rotates and pivots with the Vindicators so their side armor of 11 is never exposed.  The only way your enemies can take advantage of the side armor is if one of your Rhinos or LR explodes.  You can even keep Vindicators next to wrecked Rhinos so they can take advantage of LoS and cover saves while limiting your opponents line of fire towards the AV13 front.  With this formation and smoke, you'll find that you'll be all the way in mid-field in relative safety.

Here, you will see R-V-R-V-LR-V-R.  Armor values are 11, 13, 11, 13, 14, 13, 11.  Your heaviest guns and your biggest threats, will be AV13 and 14 when they push up the board.  If you run into a building in the way, move your vehicles in a way that uses that building to deny a side shot.  Think of the building as one big Rhino.  You're essentially making a Vindicator sandwich with R-V-Building.

The Predator version of Linebreaker.

Over here, you see the same formation but with Predators.  My config of Predators is normally AC turret with LC sponsons.  It's cheap and it's an effective firebase.  Preds share the same AV13/11/10 stats as the Vindicator, so their methodology is similar in the fact they're still vulnerable in side shots.  The main difference is that they have longer range, can play refused flank better and have the luxury of rotating turrets and sponsons.  If the Predator ever needs to bring its full power into effect, it needs to rotate exactly like a Vindicator (to bring forth 2x Lascannons and the AC).  Keep that in mind at all times.

Another thing to note is that Predators attract a lot less attention compared to Vindicators.  No one wants a S10 AP2 Ordnance pie plate in their face and people will go to hell and back to see them destroyed.  The humble Predator, however, is looked down upon.  Nothing is better than to see your opponent's vehicles explode in white hot fury after they ignore that lone Predator in the corner of your army.  But more on this later.

Full weight of fire assembled on the left while the right side moves for a flank.

Lets say your opponent deployed all his armor and and heavy hitters on the left.  You refuse armor flank like this and bring all your heavy guns to bear on his active side.  The formation here is R-V-V-V-LR-R-R.  With nothing but AV13 and 14 to shoot at in the center of your army and possibly exposing his flank to the LR and 2x Rhinos on the right, your opponent has better get his shit together.  The yellow arrows shows a possible flank, but this entire army would probably move 12" and smoke first turn.  BA Vindicators don't give a shit and can move 12" and start firing because they're fast.  As awesome as it is to do so, always keep your AV13 facing the direction of the highest threat.  The main objective is to preserve these bad boys and have them wreak maximum damage on the enemy while taking minimal damage in return.  It's like Gun Kata, but with vehicles.

Spearhead formation pushing forward while a Vindicator and Rhino stays back as support.

Check out this formation.  It's the same Linebreaker formation we went over the first post, but this shows a tactical advance of the primary armored column while 2 vehicles remain to cover objectives (they smoked).  The idea of armored lists is to saturate the field with a lot of threats.  An LRC filled with angry Space Wolves, flanked by 2 Vindicators and 2 rabid Grey Hunter Rhinos is an enormous threat:  Especially if the front armor is AV11-13-14-13-11.  Do your opponents try to flank and risk getting shot by your Vindicator sitting in the back?  Or do they try to fight your primary spearhead head on.  Either way, your giving him a lot to think about in a short amount of time.

LoS blockers, cover saves, AV13 fronts, the works.

Before you look at this and give up, read what I have to say carefully.  Over here you'll see the armored column of vehicles rush into the fray while leaving Predators in the back as supporting fire.  If the enemy is dead ahead, the return fire will be funneled into 2 realistic scenarios:  Your opponent is forced to shoot at AV13 front, shooting through 50% of the vehicles so I get cover, or doing both of those.

The Red arrows show the Predators trajectory of fire.  They didn't move from their starting locations, but they can pivot just fine.  The Yellow arrows show what the rest of your dudes are doing; rushing forward to do battle with the enemy like real men.

As for your opponent, this is what's going to happen:

• The Green arrow shows what happens if your enemy is firing at the Pred A: 50% of the vehicle is covered by the LR and he's limited to front AV13 armor.  Denied.
• The Blue arrow can't even draw LoS to the middle Pred, so he's limited to AV13 front armor at the Pred A.  Denied.
• The Pink arrow has no shot at the Pred A at all and the rest of his Pred targets are AV13 in the front.  Denied.
• The only possible shot comes from orange, because the shot has to be so accurately spaced and he'll be able to see side armor on Pred C.  But then again, if you knew this was going to happen, you'll probably just space Preds B and C closer together, giving him AV13 while keeping everything else remains the same.

Refused flank formation using a building as an anchor.

Refused flank deployment using the table edge and a building.

Here are two examples of how to refuse flank deploy while keeping your tanks safe.  The tide box is a building, so work with me here.  Oh, and the random ass battery is the edge of the board.  By the way this army was deployed, your opponents are limited to shooting at AV13 while the Predators have a pretty large covering zone.  In the top pic, if the army wishes to advance towards the enemy, he can do so by moving his army parallel to the Predator's covering fire.  This insures that the Predators keep shooting true while the enemy cannot outflank towards the left or right to get side armor shots.  Keep in mind this leaves them vulnerable to deep strikers or outflankers.

In the bottom pic, the LR and the Rhinos are in a defensive formation with the LR blocking LoS on the floor level while preserving the Pred's AV13 front.  The LR and the Rhinos can pounce towards the enemy at any time if they get close enough.

Another formation of deploying, and this doesn't have a picture, is spreading the Predators out all over the place.  Since you shoot 48" with a pivot, you can sit back all day without relying on your tanks to baby sit them.  This forces your opponents to direct their fire at 3 separate targets and thus exposing their side armor to you if they have a fixed arc.  With a full spearhead of Space Marines coming towards them, 3 spread out Predators sitting in the back is the least of their worries.  This formation, called the "lone hunter" formation should only be used if you're confident your opponent don't have the means to deal with you at 48" and that you're the primary aggressor (which you should be!).

Main force pushes upwards and around while Predators focus on left flank.

LoS is blocked by the main force at ground level while Predators engage targets on the left.

Check out these two.  The first pic shows your iron column advancing on enemy positions while the Predators shift positions from their starting location to deal with .. say fast Skimmers.  They pivot and bring their full power to bear while your army pushes on their objectives.  If he closes towards your Preds, your tanks can change course, speed 12" and unleash hell with your troops inside.  You also run the possibility of closing around your opponent all together and crushing him off the board.

The bottom pic is what happens when your opponent sends a flanking force left while keeping some of his AT in the front.  You rush forward and pivot so your armor is forming a hard LoS blocker towards the enemy's incoming fire.  Depending on how high he's positioned, he'll either be screwed out of luck completely from shooting the back Preds or barely draw LoS at all so you'll get a healthy cover save.  Out of desperation, he shoots AT at the left most Pred which is going at his front arc of 13 and given a cover save because of the 50% block from the Rhino.  If you smoke all your Rhino and LR in front this turn, and then rush into his face next turn, your giving him a real difficult decision to make.  This formation is what you use to isolate and destroy flankers while preserving your own vehicles in battle.

Rhino moves back while Preds angle in a way to reduce incoming damage.

I know you guys are used to seeing things move up and push up, but now it's time to show a defensive position with a step back.  The Rhino marked with the Yellow arrow is stepping back to allow the Predators Pink and Red to engage different targets.  Notice the angle of the Predators and notice that AV13 is all over the place with no side armor available.  The upper most Rhino moves in to cover the side armor of the Red Pred while Blue is sandwiched nicely between the Rhino and LR.  Marines don't retreat, they regroup.  The same applies to their vehicles of war.

I'll probably be updating this and editing this this week so feel free to stop by and give me some comments.

The sky is falling!

As expected, noobs from around the world are crying OP already at the new GK codex.  This happened for every single codex release that I've seen in the last 10 years.  Yes, I know, this thread comes from whineseer, but threads like this has appeared all over the net.  Guess what?  It's not going to stop.

Let me describe what's happening:  Bad players playing other bad players automatically result in a codex being overpowered.  When a veteran player analyzes a codex, several things take place inside his head that's completely alien to lesser players.  For example, I'll analyze myself; not because I think I'm the greatest player to have ever lived, but I have seen the rise and fall of army books since 3rd and have played in thousands of matches both competitively and casually.


Ignoring all the bad fluff, I looked straight at the army composition.  Does it make sense?  Can I take the choices I want in the FOC requirement?  Can I take optimized units in the FOC?  Do I have choices?  Most importantly, do I have viable choices in the codex?  If yes, I proceed.

With these viable units, how cost effective are they?  Viability is determined by effectiveness vs. cost.  Is a Grey Knight that has a typical Ld.8 (9 with Sarge), a Force Weapon, Storm Bolter and options to boot effective for 20 points?  Yes.  Now let's move on:  I examine the Terminators, the Paladins, the Dreadknight, the HQs, and everything else in the book in the same manner.  I look at weapon layout, upgrade choices, the FOC placement (troops or not), and the stats of the units to get a gauge on how good they are.

Once I get this, I theorycraft army lists in degrees of hardness.  By "hardness", I'm talking about how powerful the book can be.  I build 3 levels; WAAC, competitive and casual.  WAAC lists are the min-maxed RB spam lamer lists that I hate so much, but I only build them to see if a codex is capable of shifting the metagame and dominating everything in the game.  Competitive is a solid army built from the best choices in the book.  Then there's casual, which is a little bit of everything fun.

After that's done, I re-examine the scores of lists that I invented and pitch it against the hundreds of lists I fought against.  Can this GK list (one of my lists) beat this X army list (one of the many lists I've seen).  I think about this for quite a long time since there's a lot of matchups once you draw it all out.  I use my battle experience, my advance theorycraft and my knowledge of the game to predict the outcome.  Once I have good idea how the battle is going to go, I start playing games.

What's the difference between someone like me and X noob on the forum?  I don't jump to the last step and immediately start playing games.  I'm not going to pit a competitive or even WAAC type of list against a casual or fluffy player's regular list, win horribly and then claim the book is overpowered.  That's just ridiculous.  What I do is analyze the book, understand its mechanics and their strengths and weaknesses, then pit myself against opponents who designed their army the same way.  A competitive player with a competitively built list should not be mowing down fluffy players with fluffy lists.  Not only is it shameful, but it's an inaccurate display of the book's power.

The other difference between the veteran player and X noob is the experience.  Without countless games logged against all the different armies out there, a player is incapable of accurately theorycrafting new army books.  How does the list fair vs. Mech Guard?  How would the same list fair against an older, but terribly strong army like Castle Eldar?  Without experiencing these armies in battle, your assessment of the outcome will be poor, thus your analysis of the army's overall power will be poor.

You see the same type of shit on RTS forums in relation to game balance.  God knows I've been on many of those..

When ahead, stay ahead

This is a RTS philosophy that I've used, learned and experienced the hard way in many years of practice.  Typically in StarCraft, once you get ahead of your opponents in terms of economy and expansions, it's very easy to stay ahead as long as you control the money game.  If you kill one of his expansions with a push, you can take another expansion and you'll be infinitely be more ahead than he is.  Chances are that no matter what he does, you'll remain ahead for the rest of the game.  This is a mentality that I took with me to miniatures gaming.


Say that you're playing a game of 40K and you've killed a bunch of his transports and left almost his entire army footslogging.  Do you go balls out and assault with your dudes and ignore the ranged advantage that you have?  Fuck no.  I don't know about you guys, but I get the most fun when I use every strategic choice available to me in the most efficient way possible.  I understand completely that if I keep my range and use my speed as an advantage, I'll take less losses and inflict heavy casualties on my disabled enemy.  Will that make the game more fun for him?  No.  It is a form of punishment to watch all his minis die one by one, but such is the price of tactical failure.

Now what about Warmachine?  Last night I watched a game where one of my friends got eVlad down to 2 HP. Instead of taking his time and thinking about all the options and tools he had in front of him (eVlad was the only guy left), he got greedy and tried to kill eVlad by shooting him in combat.  Greed is not the right method in WM, especially when you're ahead.  Turns out that eVlad didn't die after all and he walked over to Kaelyssa and chopped her head off in the next round.  This isn't the first time I've seen greed overcome a player's tactical mind either.  Maybe it's the smell of victory so near or the thought of a glorious win that makes players forget their logic and tactics.

This has happened to me as well, for more games than I can remember.  I remember the times where I would be overly aggressive and push into someone's base with tanks, MM and Drop Ships; going for the killing blow.  Of course he would defend well and I literally smash my head and my resources into a 1-base all-in strat, but despite everything I do, I just can't make it up that ramp for the home stretch.  Before I know it, my army is in full retreat and my opponent has a hidden expo.  He stayed calm, controlled his fear of defeat and used superior tactics to defeat my push.  What I should of been doing was scouting for possible expos, taking another base and anticipating any tricks he can muster to get back into the game.  I smashed into his tactics like water on rock and I full-heartedly agree that I should be defeated.  Stubbornness, greed and arrogance are some of the the biggest flaws in gamers in every genre of gaming.

So how do you overcome such flaws?  Simple.  By simple, I mean that the following advice I give will be simple to understand, but will take time to come to fruition.  I promise you this though:  Once you master these tips, your game will improve drastically.  Guaranteed.

• Stay calm in dire times.  When things go poorly, keep your tactical mind sound and analyze every possible situation to reverse the game in your favor.
• Don't get greedy, ever.  When a win is near and you can taste it on the tip of your tongue, take a second and analyze various ways your opponent can reverse the game in his favor.  Deny them these situations and the game is yours every time.
• When all is lost, gg out and find another game or play again.  Take a few minutes to discuss the things you did wrong, how you could of done better, and what you can do next time.  Most importantly, LEARN from every mistake and commit your failures to memory.  Try not to repeat these again.
• Take time to do research and study your adversaries.  There is nothing more unforgiving than ignorance in the face of battle.  It has been the downfall of thousands of generals and their soldiers paid for it with their lives.  Knowledge is power, use it well.
• Lastly, practice makes perfect.  You might be the best player in the world, but if you don't get game time in, your skills will start rusting away.  Don't be afraid to lose and take each loss with a smile.  Defeat only makes you stronger as long as you learn from your mistakes.

That's all I got.  Take as much from this as you can.

PS - I changed the color of the site slightly.  Let me know if you like it or not.

What does "cost effective" mean?

I know that by now, you guys must be asking yourselves:  Hey, this guy talks about cost effective units all the time.. but what the hell does it really mean?  In short, being cost effective means the "best bang for your buck".. in gaming terms.

This isn't going to be a terribly long post.. since I'm currently worked to shit and I'm kinda tired.  First, a short bio of who I am and why do I think cost effective choices are the way to do things.  For starters, I've played RTS games since I can remember clearly.  My first game was Command and Conquer, then I moved onto StarCraft, WarCraft, the expansions, played Dawn of War, Company of Heroes, all the BfME games, all the Age of X games... basically, every single RTS game ever made.  I'm currently in Diamond Legaue in SC2 and I barely get to play.  Not to brag or anything, but I have a natural affinity towards playing these kind of games.  I know how to optimize, adapt and execute on my strategy.

You know what all these RTS games have taught me over these long years?  That being cost effective is the way to victory.  There's no way in hell that I'm not going to take something that's cheaper and can do the same job as something more expensive.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  Like a computer trying to run a program in some language it doesn't understand.  When fluff players talk to me and brag how they like to take 10 Terminators in every game, my head draws a blank: A real life question-mark.  A state of confusion.  Pretty much a giant WTF.

When I first started playing minis games 10 years back, I used the same RTS mentality and skill and applied it to Warhammer 40K.  In a game like StarCraft, if I was given 2k minerals and I was told to construct a solid Terran army (pretend that nothing costs gas), I could hand you Marines, Medics, Tanks, Sci Vessels and some Goliaths.  Apply that in 40K terms, I'll hand you a bunch of Grey Hunters in Rhinos, some Long Fangs, a Rune Priest or two and some Terminators in a LRC.  That's just how my head thinks.  I see every table-top game as a small "macro" game in StarCraft which sole purpose is to maximize on damage vs. all types of enemies.  This is why my lists always come out strong, powerful and can take on any foe.  This, is the very definition of min-maxing and the only way you can truly understand how to min-max is by knowing your shit.  Maybe that's why I can play Marines effectively.  I understand the value of PPM (Points Per Model) and I know that wound saturation does not mix with a poor PPM ratio.  When building an army list, I make sure I use every available facet of knowledge I have in the game and construct a army that's both powerful and balanced.

I'd like to finish this post off with a very rewarding quote from a very respectable person.  It just comes to show you that no matter how many times you lose, you will always walk away a winner..  As long as you learn from your mistakes that is.

“I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”
-- Michael Jordan

PS - I'm currently looking into Flames of War stuff.  I'm a huge WW2 buff and I've always wanted to play Germans in a miniatures game.

Min-maxing is NOT WAAC

I'm going to be frank here: I hate it when people relate min-maxing to Win At All Costs. Being point efficient with your army because you want to be competitive does not mean you are a WAAC player. First, let me give you my definition of min-maxing and WAAC.

The min-maxer player is a competitive gamer that maximizes his army book and his army list.  He is first and foremost; a competitive player.  Not only does he understand the game, the rules, and his army book very well, he understands other armies very well as he believes that the key to victory, is game knowledge.  He likes taking units that best suits the needs of his army, often times being molded and shaped by the ever-changing metagame. He understands that the current meta has vehicles and thus melta weapons are the key at punching through armor at close range, just as an example.  The min-maxer also recognizes that to not take the most cost effective unit is to throw a wrench into a otherwise well-oiled machine (such as his army list) and thus he does not do so.  He is essentially the player that always takes what he views, is the best bang for your buck.  I am a min-maxing, power gaming, competitive player.


Now what is a WAAC player?  He is exactly as his name suggests:  Win At All Costs.  It doesn't matter if you're having fun, it just matters if he wins or not.  He is the kind of player that moves your/his models when you're not looking to gain an advantage.  He is the kind that measures so quickly and charges before you can confirm 6".  He is the kind that throws dice behind terrain so if he rolls a "1" for a Terminator save, he'll say it's been saved.  WAAC means simply that he's a cheat.  I've seen players like these and I've played against players like these.  They're arrogant, sleezy and downright pathetic to play against.  Truth be told:  I've seen a dude measure the length of his forearm and try to guess measure with it on the table before.  I mean come on, seriously?  Do you really need me to tell you that you're trying to measure cannon shots with your arm?  Give me a fucking break!  This is a game with miniature toy soldiers.  If that isn't pathetic enough (and awesome!), how sad do you have to be to cheat.

In RTS, the WAAC player plays with Map Hacks.  In FPS, the guy uses aimbot.  In Table-top gaming, the dude will bend the rules, fake his dice or do anything to win.  I don't know about you guys.. but here's how we handle cheaters in my neck of the woods:

There is a key difference between someone whose pushing his army design skills to the test and someone who measures with his forearm is quite apparent.  You can be a WAAC player that min-maxes his lists, but a person that min-maxes his army doesn't have to be WAAC.  That goes without saying that a WAAC player that doesn't know how to min-max and just outright cheats should be purged by fire.  With that said:  Never confuse the two and never relate the two in the same sentence.  It's both insulting and downright incorrect.

List synergy

A lot of the time I see people making lists that lack the synergy needed to carry out their battleplan.  You see lists that's supposed to be fast take slow units that slow the rest of the army down; or an army that takes too many reserves and it gets dissected on the field turn by turn.  This post will hopefully help people realize these issues and how to improve upon it.

Let's look at some example lists that preform well in battle and analyze why they work.

Eldar Castle list (Defensive):

Avatar

Eldrad

2x large units of Wraithguard

3x Wraithlords

A squad of counter-attacking Harlequins + Shadowseer

The entire army moves slow but the units here are incredibly resistant to damage.  The big to note about this list is that the army's movement speed is the same.  Everything moves as one, the tempo remains constant, and nothing is left stranded or out of reach of immediate assistance.  The Wraithguard, Avatar and Wraithlords are all really tough with their T6+ and 3+ saves.  Eldrad offers great protection to the army via zone wide psychic protection and Fortune on your units so you get that armor re-roll.  Your shooting is primarily short-ranged but with guide  your Wraithguards' no armor save instant death shots become really intimidating.  The main weakness of this army is CC, but that's why you have Harlequins with a Shadowseer hiding behind your Wraithguard as the ultimate counter-charging element.  Overall, this list favors a more defensive player's playstyle but has all the right tools to make it work.  It moves as one, shoots at one and reacts as one.

Blood Angels list (Offensive):

Chapter Master Seth

Honor Guard in RB

Librarian w/ JP in a squad of 10x flying ASM

2 more squads of ASM in a Rhino and Razorback

Corbulo with the ASM in the RB

Furioso Dreadnought in a Drop Pod

3x Baal Preds

This list functions in a mindset completely opposite to the Eldar castle list listed above.  This list is fast, completely geared towards assault and concentrated pressure.  Seth and his HG bodyguard turbos forward with the rest of the army while the Baal Preds lay down suppressing fire.  The Librarian and his squad of ASM flies behind the rest of the mechanized army, providing them with 4+ cover.  Everything moves at 12"+ and above; most elements moving at 18" and popping smoke because they want to reach combat ASAP.  Blood Angels excel at speed, close combat and extreme early game pressure.  You force the tempo of the game to change because of your speed and your opponents must react accordingly or be destroyed.  That's the entire purpose of a fast, hard-hitting army.  And that's exactly why stationary elements such as Devastators don't really work in a list like this.

Space Wolves list (Balanced):

Rune Priest

Arjac Rockfist

4x squads of Grey Hunters, 3 in Rhinos, 1 in LRC

2x squads of 6x Long Fangs with 5x ML

The advantage of Wolves is that they're a very balanced army.  At the same time, they're a very powerful army because they can do almost everything really well.  Space Wolves have strong elements of shooting, CC and psychic abilities; thus, they can build balanced lists better than most armies.  In short, they're basically C:SM who can shoot better and assault better.  The Long Fangs provide long range firepower and the 4x solid squads of Grey Hunters excel at close-range engagements.  The Rune Priest can support the field with long range attacks or medium range denial and Arjac Rockfist destroys most things in close combat.  Because of the army wide counter-attack special rule, Space Wolves can receive a charge just as well as charging into combat themselves.  This makes them an extremely flexible and powerful army.  Unlike most armies, Space Wolves don't need to force the tempo of the game to remain effective.

With these examples in mind, I hope it's easier to see what a good list should look like.  You need a list that can move together and take advantage of the strengths of your army.  If you have a fast list, don't take slow units that will slow the rest of it down.  Concentrate on the strengths of your book and play with units that'll take advantage of that.  Your strongest list will always be one that fits your playstyle.  That's simply because instinctively, you already played out the battle in your head before it even begun.  Yet another reason why copying winning tourney lists off the internet doesn't guarantee victory.