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| Get hit by that Dark Lance. Feelsgoodman. |
I typed a good amount today on the forums, and here is what I had to say about a variety of subjects. All of which pertains to my idea of a successful Kabal list, since all of these are common elements in my army lists.
On Aethersails..
I would argue that Aethersails are even better in a DS list because you can correct a bad scatter with the extra range.
While AS is not mandatory, they're cheap enough to be spammed on almost all of our vehicles. I would say they're more useful on back-field captures units like 5-man lancers, and less useful on gunboats because they really want to be moving 6" and rapid-firing every turn.
Either way, if you have the points, buy into them. At 5 points, I use them as space fillers that give me more strategic value than a single Night Shield.
On Knights or LR spam..
With the loss of reliable mass haywires, the Achilles is literally a hard counter to everything in our book.
If you're going to be playing against that crap, I would really suggest you look into Eldar allies. Why? Because they have access to S10 AP2 Distort weapons that don't care about the likes of Achilles and other LR-variants. Not to mention we have a very solid way to delivering them to areas they will find most displeasing, on the side, rear, in cover, however we want. With the Autarch in our midst, we can also deliver other popular Eldar weapons in there, and with greater accuracy. Units like Fire Dragons do wonders vs. the standard non-Achilles LR. These elements are also our best answer to Knights, since you're just as dangerous in melee with Meltabombs.
Now that you said you want pure DE, that, my friend, is going to be really bad for you. The only thing you can do at this point is load up on lances, blasters, blasterborn, and heat lances. Forget the Scourges, I seriously think they're utter crap and people are just excited to use them because of their price drop. At the end of the day, they're still 5 T3 dudes with cover saves that will die to any kind of retaliatory anti-infantry shooting.
We're not concerned at all with LR rush, as we have lances for days and even more once they get within Blaster range. That's why you slowly push against that kind of list because at best, you can use the terrain to your advantage as you get closer and closer towards them.
For example, this is the pure DE list I play in an mechanized meta:
Updated: 10/14/14
1850
20 KP
HQ:
Archon, WWP, Blaster, Haywire = 115
TROOP:
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS = 120
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS = 120
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS = 120
10x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS/SR = 175
10x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS/SR = 175
10x Warriors, Blaster, Raider Lance/AS/SR = 175
ELITE:
5x Trueborn, 4x Blaster, Raider Lance/AS/NS = 195
FAST:
Razorwing, Lances = 140
Razorwing, Lances = 140
HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 125
Ravager, Lances = 125
Ravager, Lances = 125
Your opening reply is 15 lances and as you reach the 18" range mark, you're adding +6. Razors coming in gives you +4, the Blasterborn unit itself gives you +6 (Blasterchron and Raider). By T2, you can have 31 lances at your opponent if nothing dies (tall order, but it exists). You still have enough anti-infantry via the gunboats to do something, but you can always drop the entire unit down and save 165 points (enough for another Razorwing or a unit of 9x Reavers with Heat Lances if you also cut some sails).
The fact of the matter is: DE does not care about Land Raiders. To us, they're overpriced Chimeras because you're essentially shooting at the same thing. As an Dark Eldar player.. when life throws you lemons, throw back Dark Lances.
I'll quote something I said in another thread:
(see below on Dark Lances)
Which is another reason why I don't like Scourges with HWB. They do absolutely jack crap to a lot of the targets I listed above.
Out of everything your opponents can bring, the one thing that really stands out is the ridiculous Achilles. That thing was made to reduce everything that we have to paperweight, and I god damn hate the designers for that. Before, our reply was a quick swift kick in the nuts via Wyches with Haywires, but now we have to rely on Eldar allies to bring in Wraithguard. The same can apply with Imperial Knights, but because you can pin-point drop the Blasterchron's unit, you can get easy shots from the back. That and the fact you can use your speed to get around the void shields sometimes.
Eldar just brings so much to the table for us, especially with the Autarch's Fusion Gun and Archon's WWP/Blaster combo. It allows us to bring in reserves with consistency, gives us Wraithguard, Wraithknights, and Fire Dragons, all of which just reduce mech lists to molten slag. The Wraithguard are especially effective, as you can take a big unit of 10 of them, run them with a Spiritseer (Iyandnen CAD), attach the WWP/Blasterchron and you're good to go. Now you're walking around with T6 3+ and a Archon tanking all the hits with Shadowfield from the front, after you've casted Invisibility on yourself, forcing everything to snap shot at you. It's ridiculous, and can single-handily walk over the entire LR force by itself.
The Wraithknight also allows you to threaten AV14 turn after turn from a distance, can keep pace with the rest of your army, and punch out the Achilles in close combat because of S10 MC and a decent amount of attacks.
If you want to play competitive, play competitive. Taking a pure DE list is not as competitive as Eldar allies, but it does have answers specifically for the Land Raider. Vs. the Achilles, you have to look elsewhere.
On Mechdar with 2x Wraithknights..
That list exists soley to punish 2 specific lists in the meta: Mechdar that's not running WK, and pure Tau, as both of these have no solid solution vs. 2x WK.
I agree with Mandor in saying that the Wraithknight is superior. He just offers so much more to the table not only in durability (vs. most things in the meta as opposed to niche things like Agonizers), threat range and better weapons. The fact that he's S10 also gives him dominance over T5 mult-wound and just stomps the crap outta any vehicle in close combat. Being completely immune to bolters, while hilarious, is not as impactful as a meltaguns and lances only wounding on 4s.
On the importance of Dark Lances vs. poison weapons..
Then I would argue he doesn't have enough anti-tank and an over saturation of poison.
S8 AP2 Lance is not just our answer for vehicles btw, it's the answer to everything in life, Terminators, Bikes, Riptides, Dreadknights, Wraithknights that are exposed, basically anything T4 multi-wound (Oblits, Broadsides, Nobz), the list goes on and on.
We have plenty of anti-infantry in our army, and while that can be a good thing, it can be misleading when designing your list. We have to maximize on our lances if we're to make a big impression on targets with 2+ AS because we don't have reliable melee solutions to those. Poison is good, but not enough to punch holes in what we really need to down in most cases. That's why you must have a healthy amount of lances in your army.
Which is another reason why I don't like Scourges with HWB. They do absolutely jack crap to a lot of the targets I listed above.
On Archon and Shadowfields..
Nah, his entire purpose in life is to guide a unit down and nothing more. Well, besides a BS7 Blaster shot from 18" away! If he dies, he dies, but hopefully he'll make his points back guiding the blasterborn unit down and blowing up whatever he's shooting at.
He failed miserably in my last game when he came down and didn't do jackshit vs. a unit of Oblits, but at least that took some of their attention off of the rest of the army because I now have 6 lances prowling behind the backlines. That's absolutely huge, having essentially 2 Ravagers behind someone's backfield making them cry.
That, in itself, is well worth the 110 points you invest in him. If you do take a Shadowfield, then I suggest him leading a unit of Wraithguard, so he can tank all the shots coming at him from the front. That's the only instance I would take SF on him, not for combat, but so he can tank shots until the end of the phase from more important targets (e.g. Wraithguard, Fire Dragons).
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