New VC and High Elves Tactica

Hey guys, I'm getting my hands on the book today and I'm gonna get on a review ASAP.

As for what I've been doing lately, I've been arguing with fellow High Elves players on Ulthuan.net.  One of the most raging topics is:  Do High Elves need the Book of Hoeth to be competitive?  Think of uncomped areas.

What do you guys think?  Personally, I think you don't NEED it to be competitive, but it certainly helps a lot!

Check out this massive tactica I wrote on Ulthuan.net.  It's basically all the HE info on this site transferred over plus a few more things.

My 2500pt Ogre army!

Looks something like this..

2471

LORDS:
Lv.4 Slaughtermaster (IF, Hellheart, AoD) = 388
Gut Magic

HEROES:
Bruiser (BSB, GW, 2+, Ironcurse) = 191
Lv.1 Firebelly (GW, Scroll) = 154

CORE:
9x Ogres (FC, IF) = 323
6x Ironguts (FC, Discipline) = 308

SPECIAL:
4x Mournfang (FC, HA/IF, Dragonhide) = 360
4x Leadbelchers = 172
4x Leadbelchers = 172
Sabretusk = 21
Sabretusk = 21
Sabretusk = 21

RARE:
Ironblaster = 170
Ironblaster = 170

The Lv.4 SM has 4+ armor, 6+ parry and 4+ ward.  He also carries the Hellheart to mess with enemy wizards.  I guess it goes without saying that he's been officially approved to carry armor because the designers failed to catch it.  That's perfectly fine with me!  I just wish all Ogres could parry with Ironfists regardless of what weapon they're carrying.  Visually, that would make more sense to me because of the way Ironfists look.  Anywho, the rest of the heroes look pretty standard.  BSB enjoys a 2+ save and carries a Great Weapon, the Firebelly carries a scroll and Great Weapon himself.  All 3 of those heroes will sit comfortably in the 6 Irongut unit for a total of 2x 3x3 blocks to make up the main belly force.

The Special slots are also pretty standard:  3x Sabretuks as better Eagles, 4x Mournfangs with all the bells and whistles, and 2 units of 4x Leadbelchers so I can shoot things to death.  I was thinking maybe cutting the squad down to 6x Leadbelchers and then buffing up either the Ironguts or Bulls, what do you guys think?

Lastly, I'm taking 2x Ironblasters because I think shooting big ass S10 cannons is ridiculous.  Plus, they're not bad in combat and they're really tough to kill!

Other things I might do is as follows:
SM takes Glittering Scales and Fencer Blades to make him almost unhittable in combat.
I find room for another Bruiser with 4+ ward for another beatstick.
I drop some Leadbelchers and maybe a Ironblaster for more Core units.

Is it me or is this army really small?  I normally deploy 100+ elf models to the table and this is looking quite sad!  I guess I should be counting wounds and not actual models?  It just looks really funny to me lol.

BR: 2500pts HE vs. DoC

I had this game about a week ago but people on Ulthuan.net is complaining about my lack of battle reports.  So... I'll write this one up even though it was a pretty unimpressive game.

My list:
Lv.4 Archmage with Book, Shadow Lore
Noble BSB with GW, AoC, GP
Lv.1 Mage w/ Sigil, High Lore
32x Spears w/ FC, Lion Standard
30x Spears w/ FC
20x Phoenix Guard w/ FC, Banner of Sorcery
30x White Lions w/ FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
12x Sword Masters w/ Musician
2x Great Eagles

His list:
Lv.4 Chicken Lord w/ re-roll and Loremaster Life
Khorne BSB w/ AoK and Great Standard of Sundering
Changeling in a unit of Lv.3 Wizard Horrors
Slaanesh Herald w/ Siren Song in a big unit of 30x Daemonettes w/ FC,
Big unit of 30x Bloodletters w/ Khorne Herald
Small MSU unit of Flesh Hounds
6x Flamers of Tz
3x Fiends of Slaanesh
5x Seekers w/ FC

• I think that's it off the top of my head, but I won the roll to go first.  We played Battleline.  I get Mindrazor, Withering, Pit and Miasma for spells.
• Deployment looked something like.. WL, Lion Spears, Spears, PG, SM, with Eagle1 behind the Lion Spears and Eagle2 behind the Sword Masters.  The way I deployed was so my Spear units faced his Khorne and Daemonettes, Sword Masters facing towards the Seekers and Phoenix Guard across from the Bloodletters too.
• First turn sees me push models forward but not greedily.  Eagle1 flies near a building and my White Lions angle behind a medium sized building so I can assist the Lion Spears.  PG Mage bunker moves up 5" and casts Miasma on his Daemonettes.  He makes me re-roll but I still IF and everything is reduced by 1.  Eagle2 flies forward on an angle towards his Seekers forcing a bait so my Sword Masters can get some.
• His turn sees the Seekers charge the Eagle and I promptly flee.  He fails to catch but moves up some but not as long as I hoped.  The rest of his units semi-march and they move a bit long but they're far from charge range.  His magic gets thrown around for Dwellers but I dispel with ease because poor rolling.
• My turn sees the Siren Song triggered on my Lion Spears and I take the charge.  I roll insanely well and I get in combat from 16" away.  My White Lions are confused where the Spears they were supposed to guard went.  Seeing that happen, I move up my White Lions, move up my other Spear regiment to cover the other Lion Spear's flank and re-position Eagle1 to block his Flesh Hounds from flank-charging my Spears.  My Sword Masters on the far right also rolls high for charges (a 10) and gets in combat with the Seekers from 15" away.  We both didn't see this coming and it was quite unexpected.  The right most Eagle flies back towards the army center.
• Magic sees Miasma and Mindrazor go off IF on the Spear unit that hit combat and I promptly maul the Herald with ease.  Due to WS and I being nerfed by 3 and Spearmen attacking in 3 ranks on the charge, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s, I inflict a good amount of kills on the unit.  He attacks back, lose by 3 and takes his Unstable tests.  My Sword Masters, chew through his Seekers and surge forward an almighty 6 inches to get shot to shit by the Flamers.
• His next phase sees the Flesh Hounds charge the middle Eagle who takes it to the face.  Since his Fiends couldn't get around the building his big block of Daemonettes and my Spears were fighting by, he had to take the long route around.  They sure can move though, so he positions by the rear of my Spears.  His Khorne Daemons also charge my PG mage bunker and fails the charge, even with Icon of Endless War.  He ends just a little bit short and sad times are to be had.  Magic sees him successfully cast +2T on his Bloodletters after I fail to dispel.  Of course, his Flamers murders all but 5 of my Sword Masters but they hold on double 1s.  Combat sees Eagle1 perish horribly and him re-positioning his Flesh Hounds to the flank of my Lion Spears again.
• Next turn, I block his Fiends with my Eagle and re-direct them into nothingness.  I charge my White Lions into the side of his Flesh Hounds and my Spears run into his Bloodletters.  My Sword Masters charge his Flamers because I'm 8" away and I get in there with ease.  Magic sees Mindrazor IF on the Spears (on Bloodletters) and he makes me re-roll my doubles.  I roll another doubles and things are sad.  On top of this, I also get off Miasma on the Bloodletters and nerf them by 2.  Since the Slaneesh Herald is gone, my other Spears maul his Daemonettes but they strike back with titanic fury, killing a bunch of Spears.  Combat is closer than I thought and the daemongirls continue to hold.  My Sword Masters chop down a good amount of the Flamers and they swung back, killing none in return, only to be killed by Unstable.  They reform into the rear of the Bloodletters.  The Razorspears ASF into the Herald with 6 attacks and he lives through bad rolls and good ward saves.  The rest of the Bloodletters are not so lucky and many are fell, but not before they swung back and kill a good amount of Spears.  He loses combat but rolls well to hold.  The White Lions kill off the rest of the Flesh Hounds and then overrun into the Horrors who did practically nothing all game.
• On his turn, he has no choice but to charge my Eagles and I re-direct him into no where.  The last Eagle dies but his death was justified because his Fiends did nothing and his Seekers got lucked by the SMs.  In magic, I let Throne of Vines through, dispel Regen on the Bloodletters, let Flesh to Stone go on the Daemonettes so I can Sigil his Dwellers on my Phoenix Guard and remove it from the game.  Combat from the White Lions sacs the Horrors even with the Champion switched by the Changeling, the Lion Spears lose combat to the T5 Daemonettes but holds firmly, and the Bloodletters continue to get mauled by my MR Spears.  The Eagle's death sees his Fiends turn towards my Phoenix Guard, who just looks at them with confusion.
• On my turn, I clean up the majority of his army with IF MR on the Spears vs. Bloodletters (who are now rear-charged by the Sword Masters) and Withering on the Daemonettes.  The winds of magic have been in my favor all game and every doubles that he forced me to re-roll has turned into another.  Seeing the seemingly unstoppable Elves trounce through the majority of his army with little to no opposition, we call the game here.

Post-game thoughts:

• Pretty lucky overall this game.  Book went off IF every time with no miscasts.  The winds were also plentiful, giving me ~8 dice every phase and he couldn't stop my magic no matter what.
• This just shows how powerful a Book list is because it literally overrides any weakness the High Elves have in combat and deliver decisive results where you want it, when you want it.  It also allows you to make bolder plays because you can take on enemies you otherwise wouldn't.  If you think about it, it also makes the herald buffs quite useless for the Daemons.
• ASF and re-rolls really, really hurt Daemons.  The biggest worry was the Daemonette Herald but once she was done, the rest of the unit just took a beating every turn.
• I played the Eagles nicely, and they do wonders in every game I play with them.

Tactica: High Elves vs. Daemons of Chaos

I will most likely do one of these a month depending on what the monthly poll turns into here.  It will be more competitive focused and will be a LIVING Tactica encompass the current meta.  This will continue as long as High Elves are using the same army book.

I've also gathered all the articles I have here and re-posted most of them on Ulthuan.net.  You can find the thread here:  HERO's Guide to High Elf Glory [8th Edition]

Without further ado, let's get into the nitty gritty.  The format of these tacticas will also be more straight forward and gets to the point quicker.  My reasoning is that people just want to know 2 things:  What the hell does that unit do and how do I kill it?

So with that in mind, I'll list out a bunch of units, characters or something and then provide an answer.

High Elves vs. Daemons of Chaos
Match-up Analysis

Daemon Special Rules
The first thing you have to know is that the entire army causes Fear, has a 5+ ward and have magical attacks.  They are also Immune to Psychology so they do not care if they get owned, they just take Unstable tests and move on with life.

Deal with it.

Greater Daemons
There are 4 Greater Daemons of Chaos and they're all equally ridiculous one way or another.  I'll note what they commonly do here:

Bloodthirster - WS10, 7 attacks, I9, Immortal Fury gives re-rolls to hit, Obsidian Armor (3+ save) makes it so magical weapons count as mundane and Firestorm Blade makes him S7 with flaming attacks.  He can also take a scroll if he just takes Armor of Khorne (3+ save).

Keeper of Secrets - WS9, 6 Armor Piercing attacks with ASF I10, moves 10 and can take Siren Song.  Can cast spells and murder things in close combat for a pretty affordable price.

Great Unclean One - T6 with 10 wounds, WS4 but carries a Flail, Balesword and Noxious Vapours.  S8 on the charge and he wounds automatically.  Each wound translates to D6 wounds and Noxious Vapours robs you of ASF and makes you ASL.  He might also carry a S4 breath that he can do in combat to generate combat res.

Lords of Change - Flying bird with T6 and 5 wounds.  I6 so you can't really sink him with PoS or anything.  Capable of Lore Master + Tzeentch's Will which allows him to re-roll 1 die during each player phase.  This can be used to cause an IF, turn a crappy roll into a great roll, so on and so forth.

There's no real answer to Greater Daemons because they're just really powerful.  Mindrazor something and hope you roll a good number of hits.  Reducing their toughness, WS and I can also help even the playing field, but no mere mortal can hope to triumph against a Greater Daemon with positive results.  The BT and KoS especially murder units in combat.  If the BT take a Firestorm Blade, you can answer it with Dragon Armor.  As for the KoS, you're pretty much shit out of luck.  The GUO just stays around forever and can't be challenged unless you want to die horribly.  I haven't seen GUO in a while, but I have seen the rest of the 3 a lot of the time.  Keep in mind that if they take a Greater Daemon, that's a lot of points they're directing into one character.  Use this to your advantage.

SC: Kairos Fateweaver
This guy is the most flexible spellcaster in all of Warhammer.  He basically has 2 heads that knows any 8 spells of his choosing from the BRB.  Kairos also knows the entire Lore of Tzeentch, which gives him 14 spells total.  He can also cast with +2 to any casting roll and re-roll any die per player phase.  Daemonic Robes also means he can never be wounded on a 2+ and he sports a 3+ ward save.

What I would do personally is Pit of Shades the bastard.  He if goes Kairos, you bring Teclis and you PoS IF on top of his face.  He has I1 so anything short of bad luck will end him flat out.  At 625 points, if he dies, you basically roll over the rest of his army.

SC: Skulltaker
WS9, I9, 4 attacks with S6 Hatreds towards everybody.  All his attacks count as flaming and he can get a 1+ AS when mounted on a Juggernaught and have MR2.  The best part of it is that he HKBs everything in the game on 5+.

Dragon Armor all day long.  He has to issue and accept challenges so you can tank him all day with a random Dragon Helm on a unit champ.

SC: Changeling
He swaps the target's WS, S, T, I, and A values and uses them against him!  A built-in Arch-lector that works in base to base, nice.

Not much you can do about it but kill him because he doesn't have ASF like you do.  He's actually pretty mediocre if you do not have amazing fighty characters.

SC: The Masque
Basically a Herald that can't join units and has a 3+ ward save.  The worst part of this stupid daemon is that she chooses a target within 12" and reduces its leadership by D3.  She can also reduce its movement values by D3 and neither of those require LoS.

Try to snipe her if you can.  She's only T3 with 2W so you can use your Magic Missiles to end her obnoxious life.  Since she can't join units and the game is TLoS now, she can be neutralized with a well-placed 2d6 S4.

Heralds
Each herald is capable of doing awesome things once they join a unit matching its Chaos God.  The Herald of Khorne gives Bloodletters Hatred to all enemies, Tzeentch gives the Horror unit 4+ ward, Nurgle Heralds give regen, and Slaanesh gives the entire unit ASF.  The most painful ones for us is Bloodletters and Daemoenttes because one hits like a ton of bricks with ASF and the other just denies us of our key benefits. All of these heralds can be found in horde-sized units of the above mentioned daemons.  The most common ones I see these days is the Daemonette horde with Siren Song and Siren Standard and Bloodletters with Icon of Endless War.  Tz Heralds are kind of different because they can take Loremaster of any Lore and Spell Breakers (scroll).  Sometimes they fly around and sometimes they baby sit a Horror unit.  This gives them flexibility in what they want to do.

A lot of these Heralds can be sniped out by stuff like Dwellers or any ability that hits the entire unit. Death Lore is great at picking out characters and Shadow offsets their benefits by reducing their stats to garbage.  Who cares about ASF or Hatred if you're WS1 or striking with shit strength.  Just use your magic to counterbalance the bonuses the Heralds offer.

Daemon Magic
There are 3 key lores from the Daemon book and all of them are dirt cheap to cast.  The reason being is that it's a 7th Ed. book going into 8th so the prices of spells haven't changed.  Damnit.. the spells are really good too.

Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
The big ones here is Flickering Fire, Glean Magic, Bolt of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm.  Flickering Fire is a 18" D6+1 SD6+1 missile that's cheap as hell to cast.  Bolt of Change does it even better with 2D6 SD6+4 hits for a mere 12+!  Glean Magic allows the daemon to cast an enemy Wizard's spell as if it was one of their own and Tzeentch's Firestorm is just downright dirty funny.  It's a magical missile with 24" that does 2D6 S5 hits.  For every 3 wounds, it creatures a Pink Horror within 3" of the new target unit.  The new unit can now re-direct and hamper charges next turn because they're cool like that.

Daemon Lore of Nurgle
Nurgle is just really frustrating to play against for High Elves.  All of the spells are really useful and they're dirt cheap to cast.  Miasma reduces WS, S, T, I and A to 1 to all enemy models in base contact and it casts on a 3+.  Stream of Corruption is a 6+ breath weapon (cannot be used in combat) that causes a toughness test or take a wound with no armor save.  Pit of Slime forces a S-test or it can't move or shoot from 24".  Rancid Visitation cases D6 S5 hits to a unit and then it must pass a T-test or it continues on and on until the unit is destroyed or passes the T test.  Shrivelling Pox is a character sniper that forces a T-test or suffer D6 wounds with no armor saves.  Plague Wind forces an entire unit to take a T-test or suffer a wound with no armor saves.  For every 3 unsaved wounds, place Nurglings near the unit so you can use it to re-direct and block charge lanes as well.

Daemon Lore of Slaanesh
Acquiescence is weak because Stupidity is no longer an issue with BSB.  Cacophonic Caress is still a problem because it effects all units within 2D6" of the caster to take D6 S3 no armor saves.  Succor of Chaos is amazing at 7+ because all the models in the unit gains ASF and re-rolls to hit.  Slicing Shards and Pavane of Slaanesh are both useful once Phantasmagoria hits the battlefield.  All enemy units on the table must roll an extra D6 hen taking Leadership tests and discard the lowest.  Can you imagine all the Fear and Terror tests in addition to all the crazy leadership nerfs Slaanesh can put on the table?  Not to mention it casts on a 10+!

Personally, I would try to counter with Shadow, Life and Death, in that order.  Shadow's hexes counters a lot of Herald buffs and makes your units deadlier in combat.  Life offers Dwellers and increased Toughness so your Elves and survive combat with the enemy and out attrition them.  Death gives you the ability to snipe enemy Heralds and allows you to debuff the entire army with Soulblight.

Nasty Combos
Daemonette Horde + Herald, Full Command, Siren Standard, Siren Song/Soporific Musk on Herald
A ton of ASF S3 Armor Piercing attacks at I5 WS5 and 2 attacks a piece.  Siren Song makes it so you have to charge them or flee, and Siren Standard makes it so you have no choice but to hold if they charge you.  If you lose combat to them and run, you roll an extra dice when fleeing and then discard the highest result.

Take the charge with your Spears and nerf the crap out of the unit with hexes.  You should be able to out attrition them as long as you kill the herald first.  Once she dies, the unit no longer has ASF so you'll be able to drastically thin the horde's ranks.  Know what Siren Song and Siren Standard can do and use your Eagles to re-direct and prevent forced charges.

Bloodletter Horde + Herald, Full Command, Icon of Endless War, Armor of Khorne/Firestorm Blade on Herald
A ton of WS5 S5 Killing Blow attacks with Hatred.  On the turn they charge, they add D6" to their charge distance because of Icon and the Herald has a 3+ armor save with S7 flaming attacks.  Not much to say here man.. they hit like a truck.

This unit might hit like a truck, but it's easily re-directed with Eagles and doesn't fare too well in combat with your buffed-up Elves.  If you take Shadow, you can nerf this unit into the ground and then kill them in combat with your ASF and higher I.  S5 doesn't mean much when its nerfed and WS means less if they're not hitting all the time.  If you can kill his herald with one of your champions you can eliminate their Hatred all together.  You can even buy a Standard of Balance if you so wish.

Great Icon of Despair + Masque + Daemon Lore of Slaanesh
The Great Icon makes all enemy units within 12" suffer -2 to their leadership.  Masque makes a unit lose D3 leadership.  This in turn makes the Daemon Lore of Slaanesh stronger and Phantasmagoria ridiculous.  Fear Tests and Terror all over the place will just make you hate life.

Try to kill Masque and the wielder of the Great Icon of Despair.  Once these units are neutralized, you should be in a good place.  The sad part is that Masque will almost always be hiding somewhere in the back, but the Great Icon of Despair will be somewhere in the front lines.  Since it's a 75-point banner, you know that only a BSB can wield it.  This paints a nice little target over their head.  What's really annoying is when they put it on a Slaanesh Herald on a Seeker and have it join a decent unit of Seekers.  Lion Standard and Standard of Balance is a nice way to nullify fear tests, the same applies to having Caradryan in a unit or having a Champion carry the Mask of Eee!

**Things to watch out for!**

Flesh Hounds - M8, Hatred, WS5 S5 2 attacks a piece with MR3
Seekers of Slaanesh - M10 Fast Cav with Siren Standard.  WS5 S3 AP and can harbor a herald for ASF.
Bloodcrushers - A crapton of WS5 S6, 5 attacks with KB and 2W each.  Sports a nice +3 to the rider's armor save too.
Flamers of Tzeentch - One of the most hated units in the game.  D6 S4 flaming shots each with no multiple shot penalty and for very good points.  Also Skirmishing.
Fiends of Slaanesh - M10 S4 AP with 4 attacks a piece, 3 wounds T4 with Soporific Musk.

Sword Master the Flesh Hounds because they'll run into a flurry of blades and die horribly.  Normal Spears should take care of them just fine.  Seekers are fast and will wait until you're vulnerable before they hit.  Once they do, that's a lot of attacks and at ASF with herald that you might not like. Bloodcrushers get mauled once they get nerfed in combat and you force enough wounds.  Mindrazor gives you good results against them.  The same applies to Fiends of Slaanesh because they don't have ASF.  Flamers are murderous against everything in your army because of your T3 and 5+ save.  However, I would charge a unit of Dragon Princes right up their ally any day of the week.

Siren Song - One use, nominate a enemy unit within 20" and you must charge or flee.  One of the dirtiest items in the game because you can literally force a unit to fail charge, get into charge range of your own unit, or expose its flank for your units to rampage through them.  That, or you force it to flee.  Basically the best trapping item in the entire game.

Great Standard of Sundering - Choose a Lore of Magic.  All Wizards suffer a -2 penalty to cast from that Lore.  If you're using Lore of Light, you miscast on any doubles of 1, 2 and 3.  The only reason why I didn't recommend Lore of Light is because of this item.  Good thing it's either this or Great Icon of Despair, so once you know he has one he can't have the other.

The best defense with Siren Song is to analyze the position of his KoS and Heralds.  Position your units so you don't fall into any traps and use your Eagles to block possible flankers/chargers.  Re-direct the best you can and really think about your movement and positioning.  Standard of Balance also works for Siren Song because it makes the unit ITP.  As for the Great Standard of Sundering, you just gotta kill that thing.  Lore of Light would be great against Daemons if not for that banner and even so, it's -2 to your casting value is brutal.  Death Lore is a powerful sniping tool but I'd still take Shadow for the most part.

In a pickle: Vamps or Ogres

Right now, I'm still pretty undecided.  Both armies are 8th Ed. books which means balanced, fun and well-designed.  I currently own High Elves and I used to have Dwarfs.. but I sold them off because I didn't "feel" them.  I always ended up going back to High Elves..

Right now, the only thing I have built for Vampires right now is my 10x Dragon Princes to be used as (well, Dragon Princes) Blood Knights.  I have nothing for Ogres but a whole bunch of stuff for my Vampires.  This totals up to 80x Mantic Ghouls, 30x Mantic Zombies and 40x GW Grave Guard still sitting in boxes.  Let's list a bunch of pros and cons and see what happens:

First, I need an army that's radically different than High Elves.  Let's go over what High Elves are known for:

• Elite troops, everywhere, nothing is expendable and everything costs an assload of points.
• This also means they ASF, re-rolls to hit with high WS and Initiative
• Masters of magic, know all the lores, wields High Magic
• Dragons are big and powerful, have Griffon friends and Eagle allies
• Fairy little girly Elves connotation
• Aesthetically beautiful pleasing to look at; a beautiful army made of silver and azure
• Everything is on infantry bases or cavalry bases for the most part
• Requires expert generalship to win out these days.  I'd rate HE as one of the hardest armies to play right now if you avoid the book and Teclis due to the nature of the army.
• Probably somewhere in the middle for popularity
• Assloads of models to assemble, but this is my first army and I have everything already

So what about Ogres?

• Big and fat; monstrous troops, cavalry and monsters all over
• Still elite because of the points that goes into everything gives you..
• High toughness, low armor, but a lot of wounds per model.  Low WS and low Initiative.
• Not masters of magic, but have interesting hungry Gut magic
• No Dragons, but Giants, Cannons pulled by Rhinox, Mourfangs (bearcats), freaking Mammoths!
• The exact opposite of little girly Elves with big, burly, fat, questionably manly, full-retard Ogres
• Aesthetically hysterical to look at.. not beautiful in the slightest but.. interesting..
• Bases are mostly monster bases with lots of chariot and monster bases too
• Requires solid generalship since your Ogres are few, your charges must be well-calculated and you have to know which models you can break with combat and which ones you can't.  Primarily melee-orientated army.
• Not a really popular army, a plus for me
• Very few models to assemble because everything is big and burly

OK.. now Vampire Counts..

• The core of the army is expendable troops with elite supporting elements
• Crappy WS expendable troops with powerful fighter lords, cavalry, killing blow elite infantry and cav
• A mix of points spread around.. dirt cheap fodder and expensive elites
• Very solid magic with a good mix of movement, augments and power
• Big Undead Dragons, Terrorgheists, spectral ethereal stuff, Coven Throne, and flying Vargheists
• Not really girly per se, but Vampires have that emo connotation about them (e.g. Twilight)
• Aesthetically a mix of zombies, skeletons, Vampire Knights (HUGE!), ghosts and a mix of the above
• Bases are very diverse too; core is mostly infantry with powerful knights to giant monsters
• Pretty low generalship I'd say.  In 7th Ed, it was all Innvo-spamming GGdeathstar and Blood Knight bus of doom.  In 8th, almost nothing changed.  Regen Banner in a GGstar with +1 to hit or BK bus in almost all games.
• Probably the biggest bandwagon of Fantasy to date (think GK to 40K)
• A fucking million models to assemble because of all the cannon fodder

The biggest problem I have right now is that I simply cannot decide on what army I want.  In a nut shell, VC really appeal to me because of Blood Knights and fighty Vampire Lords.  I'm not a huge fan of undead, I don't care much for the whole zombie-revive undead mechanic.  Aeshetically, I just want to see fully armored vampiric knights riding into battle, smashing against anything in the game and winning.  It's a pretty linear way of thinking when it comes to Vampires I think.  I really hate the emo connotation and the caster lord in a bunker playstyle what might be effective.  It's really all about the Blood Knights for me, Blood Dragons or mauling the opponents in vicious hand-to-hand combat.  I want superiority in WS, skill and martial prowess.  Maybe that was one of the reasons why I was attracted to High Elves but also Khorne Daemons.

Ogres also appeal to me because they're funny.  I think if you want playstyles, Ogres are pretty much the exact opposite of High Elves.  They're slow, low WS but fast to get into combat and just smash things aside.  They're vulnerable to I-test spells or anything that can dispatch them before they can do serious damage.  The low WS doesn't help either, showing me that the army is pretty much made out of brawlers and lowly-trained fat people who use their guts as protection.  However, they do have BEARCATS! in the form of Mourfang Cavalry.  My wife calls me bear because she thinks I'm big and burly (maybe I'm getting heavier?) and this is something that I'm willing to accept.  They also have awesome cannons, radically eccentric fluff and powerful warbeasts.  I also think they're pretty characterful simply because the Ogres themselves are funny, almost a parody of wargaming.  I can't really picture an army made of Shreks.. can you?  Definitely something different from the seriousness that is High Elves (and me for that matter).

Well, there you have it folks.  Everyone knows me as the guy that plays High Elves but now I'm looking for a second army to offset that.  I just don't know!  Help! (more below)

For me, I usually choose an army based on the following in order of importance:

The "coolness" factor
Army design, skill factor and playstyle
Popularity
Lore

The "coolness" factor

Vampire Knights are REALLY cool to me, as is the Grave Guard/Black Knights and spectral riders.  I'm a fan of the Zombie Dragon and the Terrorgheist, but everything else is meh.  I don't see myself ever buying the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne.  I don't like the undead.. but I like Blood Knights and Vampires.  Interesting..

I like how Gut magic works and I think that's outrageous.  A Slaughtermaster eats something loudly and belches it out and something magical happens is just.. ridiculous.  Freaking Ice Mammoths, Bearcats and Ogres totting cannons.  Super cool.

Even though I like the idea of Blood Knights, I won't be using the models.  The Dragon Princes are just perfect for me because I love the look of them.  Besides, aren't Blood Dragons supposed to have Dragon iconography?  I'll probably convert a Vamp Lord to ride a steed, but I actually like the Ogre models more.  There's just more diversity in there instead of ranks and ranks of cannon fodder that all looks the same backed by a few specials.

Vampires have a "cooler" feel to them, especially to a player who plans on using a lot of vampires who focuses on martial skill, but Ogres have better models imo.  Fuck me, this looks to be a tie.

Winner: Tie

The playstyle of the army

Vampire playstyle is basically this in a nutshell:  Cannon fodder holds things in place, they're Unbreakable so who cares.  The cannon fodder sucks ass in combat anyway, but no matter how many your opponent kills, you'll just res them up and wait for your heavy hitting Knights or Grave Guard to get in there.  Once that happens, two scenarios arise:  You hit the enemy like a ton of bricks and force enough wounds to either break them, or don't break and your opponent swings back at the fodder, thus killing your expensive units as well because of the undead rules.  Anyone with a brain will swing into the fodder instead of Blood Knights imo.

The army requires wizards and casters to constantly bring the dead back to life.. or unlife I don't know.  They can't march without being near Vampires and once the general of the army dies, the entire army begins to crumble into the dust.  The plus side is that despite all the cannon fodder in the army, you get to be a WS9 Vampire Lord or have really elite Blood Knights fighting for you.  I like the idea of high WS because that's supposed to resemble you on the battlefield.. and high WS makes my ego higher.

Ogres playstyle is this:  Push models forward, calculate which models needs to go where to inflict the largest amount of casualties to force a break.  Not as straight forward as 7th Ed. Khorne Daemons, but the idea is to get into close combat and use your fat to break the enemy lines.  Magic has a lot of augments that can be cheaply cast to buff your Ogres in combat and in toughness.  Your WS is bleh but your strength and toughness is above average.  In short, Might is Right.

However, when you look at how VC players win their games, they do so with 4+ Regen Banner, +1 hit to hit, Great Weapon Grave Guard OR... Blood Knight bus with all the right tools.  This is a very linear way of playing.  For Ogres, I have cannons, Mourfang, Ironguts, Bulls, Leadbelchers.. just a lot more units who all have very different roles on the battlefield.  This is a more combined arms approach and offers a lot more win conditions and replay value than what VC offers.

Winner: Tie

Army popularity

There are 7 VC players at my nearest GW and a couple more are bound to start up.  I know zero Ogre in the area.

Winner: Ogres

The background and lore

Undead, don't really care for that much.  Vampire invades lands, gets triple-teamed by Empire/Bretonnia/Dwarves and gets owned.  Tries again in a few decades.  They're dead, so you can't really kill them and they constantly get brought back.  Not much for background and lore there.  The only thing I like is the Blood Dragon lore, and Walach and the knights of Blood Keep.

Ogres, just outrageous lore and background.  I like the story more.

Winner: Ogres

Still not sure.... since I'm a gamer first so I really care about the playstyle and rules.  I also really care about the coolness factor but both these things are tied!  HELPPPPPPP

Do you feel it?

The simplest question in the world can sometimes be the hardest..

How did you get into the armies you play?  I have many armies and tried many more, but there's always some that sticks to my heart.  You know, the armies that you constantly go back to and prefer over the ones you bought on a whim.  You gotta FEEL the army to really get into it.

So the question once again is.. did you feel your army before getting it?

I'm asking because I'm in sort of a pickle.  I didn't invest a lot into VC yet, but I'm not feeling them the same way I felt about High Elves.

New Year's Resolution

Hey guys, hope everybody had a nice New Year.  I look forward to 2012 for a number of reasons, some of which are personal and I'll share them with you now.  Don't worry, this is all minis related and I promise you you won't be disappointed.

First, a sad realization:  I have plateaued as a minis gamer and in a bad way.  To categorize myself in a nut shell:  I love list building, playing the game and putting models together.  I hate painting, thinking about fluff or anything else really.

Now it's time for me to tell a story:

Something like 4 years ago, I played my first game of 40K at the gaming company I work at now.  I played a slightly older chap who used to work at GW and he had the most beautifully painted army I'd ever seen.  I was almost embarrassed to pull out my completely unpainted miniatures that I just put together.  This was back when 5th Ed. was still young and I just got my hands on some new Space Marines.  Long story short:  I tabled him by turn 2.  He turns, looks at me and says:  "Larry, I give up.  I'm not having any fun."  This is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard.  To me, everything was going perfectly:  Shrike Infiltrated and charged where he needed to, my Drop Pods came down and unloaded their Dreadnoughts precisely where I wanted them, my Sternguard arrived the next turn and annihilated their intended target... everything was perfect - from a strategic and tactical point of view.  However, one thing was not perfect:  My opponent was not having fun.  I was having fun because I view myself as a great general with a ton of experience.  That's what happens when you play the hobby and focus on its gaming aspects for the last 11 years.  Sure, I have painted armies before and had my shares of fluff discussions, but gaming is my specialty and what I do best.  I remember this story perfectly and vividly because it is the hallmark of where I failed as a minis player.

Another story:  A month or two ago, I played a friend of mine who is also considered a casual player.  He likes to paint a lot and I swear to God he builds the worst lists I've ever seen.  He's one of those one-a-list players but his models blows mine out of the water in terms of presentation.  Now, I'm playing with Dark Eldar, another completely unpainted army because I spend all my time building and playing these armies instead of anything else.  The gist of this story is that I've already "calmed" down as a competitive player.  I purposely took no Venoms, no special characters, no min-maxed Dark Lances (even though I still had 3 Ravagers), Wyches without FNP Haemonculi and no Wracks or Beasts.  Basically, I played what I viewed as "optimal but fair".  Sadly, I greatly outplayed my opponent and a day later an email goes out to my gaming group labeling me as a power gamer.  This is what prompted that post about FW model because my friend actually wants to take a Achilles vs. me just so he has a chance.  Sadness again.

Just recently:  I played a Warhammer Fantasy game, High Elves vs. Daemons.  I saw my opponent playing Kairos a previous game before and I asked him before we played if he was taking Kairos.  The reason why I asked is because if he was, I was going to take Teclis to combat him.  I have never done this, ever, in 11 years of wargaming.  I used to take whatever I want, whoever I want, whenever I want and never gave my opponents any ands, ifs or buts.  But hey, times are changing and I'm getting older.  Moving on:  After hearing what Teclis could do, my new friend says he'll take a normal chicken lord instead and then I asked him if I can take the Book of Hoeth.  Not even a special character, but now I'm asking if he's OK with an item.  I never thought this day would happen, never.  Anyways, we play the game I max out on my tactical acumen.  My Eagles redirected accordingly, I played superb and I'm basically way ahead of him.  Out of sheer sympathy, I let him rear charge my Spears after I opted to flee with my Eagle instead of just letting my Eagle redirect.  The reason is because I want him to kill something.. anything.

For one, this is not a spiritual funk that I'm in.  It's true, I've been inactive from minis and this might be one of the reasons.  Years of dedicated gaming has made me a great general, but for what?  I hardly make mistakes, I know the ins and out of my army and my list is battle-hardened and optimized.  There is no competition, I don't attend any tournies anymore because people are assholes but in turn, I'm viewed as one because of my gaming apparatus.  At the same time, I still feel the need for competition and I'm an elitist regardless of what I do.  When I see unimaginative and poorly-tuned lists, I think to myself why.  When I see poorly executed maneuvers without any consideration for the future, I think why.  When I see 5 marines charge a full squad of Wyches and Archon instead of getting back in their Rhino and running away, I think why.  "Why" is the definition of self-proclaimed superiority and the personal view of an elitist when you constantly question other people.

I think for this new year, I want to break the mold of asking why but rather ask:  Why not?  I spoke to a friend today and asked him what I should do.  He's an older gentlemen and has tons of experience with minis gaming and I know he can tell me something.  Maybe the reason the guy charged 5 marines into a full squad of Wyches is because he wanted to see something epic.  However tactically-flawed or outrageous, he just wanted a story in the lines of:  The Space Marine Sergeant punched the Archon through the face with his Power Fist.  Maybe the poorly designed lists I see are people who don't care winning (at all) and all they care about is physically portraying the different spices of life, sprinkled in the form of toy miniatures.  Maybe people misplay and make tactical errors because they are not as experienced as I am, someone who has tread thousands of battlefields in the fantasy-past and space-driven future.

I've offered for other people to build my lists, I've sacrificed units just so I can say I lost something and I've asked for my opponent's permission to play things.  My new year's resolution is to simply:  Play the beer and pretzels game the game was intend to be played.  I'm still going to blog about the competitive aspects of gaming and share all my knowledge about becoming a better general, but I want to do it with one important message:  Make sure you and your opponents are having fun.